Fed up of businesses aligning themselves with politics!

[thehorsehasnowbolted]

I was about to grab a turkey and cranberry sandwich yesterday at a major retailer when I noticed on the package that 5% of that purchase would go to Shelter.

Why are we being increasingly forced nowadays to contribute to causes we may not necessarily agree with in this way? Why don't businesses stick to selling goods? Why the constant virtue signalling? It's annoying

I do not intend to comment on this charity in particular, but I have seen my fair share of pensioners being out of pocket to evict problem tenants who were in a position to pay the rent and look after properties but simply didn't want to and just played the system.

The results of charities activities are not always 100% positive, so customers shouldn't be forced to contribute in this way.

Why do businesses assume that their customers agree with the charities they pick? The constant virtue signalling is patronising and insulting.

I imagine sometime in the last 16 years they've looked at the figures

You assume then

Well, you can always go to their HQ and ask to see the evidence. While I'm on the subject, where's yours?

And let's not get into 'but the experts all got it completely wrong on COVID' because that's just BS.

And let's not get into 'but the experts all got it completely wrong on COVID' because that's just BS.

Was this aimed at me? I don't want to reply if that's aimed at a poster that actually said, "but the experts got it completely wrong on COVID'.

Are you incapable of answering a simple question?

Seems like you're afraid of answering.

If I answer will you finally accept it? Or keep living in denial?

1. 50/50 testing - they might be selling two variants at the same time
2. Before and after testing - measuring revenue, but also specifically the CVR when looking at footfall and the specific item sale before and after the item has been amended
3. Market research - asking existing customers about whether they felt more or less inclined to buy sandwich A or B, and why (qualitative data)
4. Online consumer behaviour - evaluating analytics across multiple metrics for the sandwich, if sold online. 50/50 testing also possible in this case

These are literally just 4 of the most common approaches. Do you get it now?

Yeah I believe that given M&S are a significant UK retailer and public company they'll have looked at their costs in the last 16 years food sales are up 5.6%.

They certainly ditch products that aren't cost effective - I miss their fresh ceasar salad dressing.

So you honestly think that at no time in 16 years anyone at M&S has looked at the impact of working with Shelter on their sandwich sales?

Come on.

@MarshaMelrose yes, that was aimed at you - you seem to think that experts got it wrong on COVID so now you doubt experts in general. Which makes me 🙄so hard.

You actually put in quotation marks that I said, 'but the experts all got it completely wrong on COVID'. Which I never said. So I don't know how believable anything you say is because you couldn't even quote me accurately.

My comment was that lots of experts over covid said a variety of things that were not true or that turned out not to be true, and there was often disagreement with other experts over so many different things. Sage and independent sage is one example. But there were loads of experts going on the news with their version of what was happening and prophesies of what would happen that turned out to be completely wrong.

There were loads of times that I read in newspapers, articles almost side by side that completely contradicted each other and both were fuelled by opinions of experts.

There many experts that were doing a great job with vaccines etc, but even then medical experts were producing information and publishing in journals articles that were completely wrong.

So I completely stand by my statement that it's hard to know how much experts actually know about anything and how much they just guess and bluster about. And if these experts were prepared to speak so forcefully - when they clearly didn't know because they were proven to be wrong later - when the country was so scared and panicking, it does make me cautious to automatically believe any expert now.

I lost it at 'affiliated sandwich' PMSL
The horse has bolted and taken any kindness or humanity you ever possessed with it.
'Tis the season to be troll-y you heartless waste of space.
I'm very good friends with Jesus and he has, through a wee catch up tonight, told me that you are really not the sort of person he wants hanging out at his clubs. In fact he's banning you. You're not on the list so you're not getting in.
Go and munch on a raw brussel sprout you mean spirited Tory git.

@MarshaMelrose I do apologise for the exaggerated paraphrasing, but I get so tired of people expecting science to be 100% perfect, and to denounce it as 'guesswork and bluster' if it is not. COVID is also not a good example - it was a completely new virus that nobody had seen before. Market research has been around for many decades and its methodologies have been tested and refined over time.

And lastly I am more inclined to believe people trained in marketing and data than someone on the internet with a massive bee in their bonnet about Shelter.

@thehorsehasnowbolted I must insist you contact M&S first thing on Monday morning and offer them your insights. They can close down their marketing departments and save millions, and also benefit from retaining those customers (was it 30-50% you said?) that they are playing Russian roulette with. Their profits will go up, and the senior managers will be raking it in with their bonusses.

I mean, even the general public might benefit from their prices going down.

Why are you so bashful? You need to step up and speak the truth, for everyone's sake.

You're right. I was going to go to my GP about my high blood pressure, but have just realised that the so-called 'experts' don't really know anything. I'll have a quick Google and see what's on offer for treating high blood pressure instead

I thought Jesus said ‘Don’t judge’. Bragging about donating to your church is the exact opposite of what Christianity is supposed to be.

what’s the problem with helping the homeless? If a pensioner has a home to rent out, they’re not doing too badly eh.

1.50/50 testing - they might be selling two variants at the same time
2. Before and after testing - measuring revenue, but also specifically the CVR when looking at footfall and the specific item sale before and after the item has been amended
3. Market research - asking existing customers about whether they felt more or less inclined to buy sandwich A or B, and why (qualitative data)
4. Online consumer behaviour - evaluating analytics across multiple metrics for the sandwich, if sold online. 50/50 testing also possible in this case

Good effort, but no

1. No, they are not doing this
2. No, this is a festive sandwich, so there is no 'before and after' instance or amendment of a pre-existing item
3. We have already established that this is not 100% reliable
4. The item is not being sold online

Bragging about donating to your church

I'm not bragging. I just wanted to say that I do donate but I want to choose who I donate to and do not appreciate being dictated to by the retailers I decide to shop at

@thehorsehasnowbolted so you'll be calling M&S first thing on Monday to offer your services? 😂

Re: 1 - maybe they sell the sandwiches in some areas with the charity tie in, and some areas without? Areas matched for demographic similarities perhaps?

Or do you know for a fact that this isn't the case, just as you know that 30-50% of their customers don't like their charity affiliations?

Then decide to shop elsewhere. Or choose a different sandwich.

No dictators!

We have already established that this is not 100% reliable

Still with the 'if it's not 100% reliable it's therefore 0% reliable. You have very little comprehension of the sciences.

You also seem to have remarkable insights into how M&S does its marketing (and you do know the charity thing isn't just about a single product?) so are you already working for them?

Waitrose had a much better approach with the 'green tokens'- at least prior to Covid, not sure if they have reinstated it.

Before leaving the store, the customer was presented with 3 charities to select from if they so wished. You could choose none or all 3.The selection of charities was changed regularly and I believe they were relatively local to each store and smallish.

The customer experience as a loyalty generator (which is presumably what retailers should be interested in) was completely different. You, as a customer felt in control of where donations went and were made to feel as if your opinion counted.

Miles away from the forced donation, 'shop elsewhere if you don't like it' method.

I think it's not difficult to understand.

@thehorsehasnowbolted Tesco does this too. But they also do charity donations on certain products in addition. Amazing, isn't it - it's not either/or!

Still with the 'if it's not 100% reliable it's therefore 0% reliable

I've already said that if an initiative has the potential to drive customers away it needs to be 100% reliable or very close, yes.

Tesco does this too. But they also do charity donations on certain products in addition. Amazing, isn't it - it's not either/or!

Well, I assume by now you can appreciate the subtle differences of both methods in terms of customer experience and why one would be much preferable for a retailer than the other

But that's nonsense. If the results show x% of customers likely to be more likely to buy and y% customers being less likely to buy, and y < x with a statistically significant reliability, then it's going to be worth doing. Because maths. You've already said you are not going to buy this sandwich. But if there are 5 people who would not have bought the sandwich, but who now will because of the charity link, then M&S are going to go ahead. It isn't about the potential to drive customers away. It's about assessing that a given course of action will attract more customers than it drives away. And that is what market research is all about.

Did you even pass GCSE maths?

Er, no. Because you're talking nonsense.