AIBU to have done two weeks back in school and think oh hell no, nope, no

[OhHolyFuckNo]

Name change for this, long term poster.

I worked in schools historically, but moved into education policy/ancillary stuff around 8 years ago, and recently have been at home with very young kids. I still have a lot of friends in local schools, and honestly, wondered if a few years back in the classroom might be the flexible work I need for family reasons and am struggling to find elsewhere. I dipped a toe back in with a temporary cover role.

I'm just so taken aback by how understaffed the schools are. Half of the people in on any day so far have been cover. Hardly any work is set, and the kids seem bored and justifiably fed up, but the contempt with which the older kids talk to the staff is not justifiable. The stronger staff are on permanent corridor duty maintaining discipline, so not in the classroom either.

Deliberately not putting this on the teaching board because I'm hoping for a range of responses. Is this how it is now? Do parents know? Is it covid as everyone seems to think? How bad is it when hardly anyone knows me but pretty much everyone I spoke to offered me a permanent job?

I would love to think it gets better and I am finding my feet again, but don't know if this is just completely naive and I don't want my own kids to pay the price if it is.

The last school I worked in had about half the amount of TA’s than needed. Kids with an EHCP that specified certain amounts of hours or one to one had a TA about fifteen minutes a day in total. The TA’s spent a lot of time helping kids who were undiagnosed and supposedly NT/ no learning needs but who obviously needed way more help than they were getting.

IMO EHCPs aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. The only good thing is that they often come with some sort of support officer from the LA who backs up the parents a bit.

I think something needs to be done about how additional needs and SEND is handled. Kids are being failed so badly and not just the ones with SEND, it’s the others around them who miss out to

@RedToothBrush unless you can afford one of the top tier public schools or you have a top academic independent day school in mind for your DS, in which case do it, I'd say it's better than state (for the kids, not necessarily the staff!) at the moment but it isnt a magic bullet in terms of having enough teachers and that is getting visibly worse each year. Much better in terms of behaviour though.
Posters who think their kids are protected from the recruitment and retention crisis in education by being in private should think again. It's just delayed by a few years.
I hope when MPs kids start being affected something might change but private schools will do all they can to cover it up from the parents (by running existing staff into the ground).

I think something needs to be done about how additional needs and SEND is handled. Kids are being failed so badly and not just the ones with SEND, it’s the others around them who miss out to

Last year DS ignore. Teacher this year has openly said he was allowed to 'coast'. The moment we've said yes to exploring SEN and signed the paperwork, all the issues which have been ignored and we've said to the school suddenly coming back as issues to be resolved.

It has actually pissed me off, the degree to which he was left to rot and suddenly its being noticed.

I am hoping it will make a difference to DS but it concerns me in terms of the other kids and how much has been left to slip.

It seems you have to be labelled a priority to get any attention. I hate it. I hate we've actually had to speak to the teachers about some of the stuff going on (safeguarding level stuff so not optional).

We are realistic that the school has limitations too. It's obvious staff are burnt out.

There's no need or value for older students studying at school, they are bored stiff, it can all be done at home online

Because that worked so well during covid

Redtoothbrush please fill your survey out honestly. Nothing is being solved by trying to brush over problems. Schools also need to know their attempts to prop up a failing system are inadequate - we can’t keep pretending things are fine.

Pupil behaviour has been declining for years, but it is now at crisis point. No-one seems to have the first idea how to manage it, so in order to find quick, cheap solutions there are 'experts' out there peddling behaviour management techniques that place all of the blame and responsibilty onto the classroom teachers - not the children, not their parents, and certainly on on senior management

Paul fucking Dix. Thankfully many schools are now abandoning his shite methods and adopting more effective policies.

Behaviour at my school has vastly improved since ditching him and using much stricter rules. Unfortunately the more effective behaviour policies are the sort of thing you see parents kicking off on here about as ‘over the top’. Sweating the small stuff. Removing kids from class who are disruptive. Centralised detentions. It works and reduces teacher workload.

I have a school survey to fill out and I just don't know how to reply to it. If I'm brutally honest, its unfair on the staff but if I'm not I don't reflect where the situation is.

Be brutally honest - politely - but write at the top that you understand it is not the fault of {whoever it isn't}.

I'm actually really shocked about the private schools. I thought the state sector would just go down to private. Makes sense they're under stress too. Most people don't go to top rate academic ones. A lot of people are forking out for private just for better support and more opportunities in activities.

I am a teacher and work in a school. Name changed as this is outing. I hear all these things about schools struggling and no money for staff or resources etc.
Maybe its the fact we are an academy but it seems they are creating more and more SLT jobs (with obviously very high wages) but yet not replacing the teachers/TAs/admin/lunch time staff that leave which we need.
We hear that the school has little money etc but the school i work in has several attendance events for the students each year. Think food vans, sweet stalls, food, fair ground rides, inflatables. This can't be cheap to run. Last year there was a helicopter, an actual helicopter that the school hired to give the students flights around the area for the day!
There are lots of regular competitions in school for students to win tvs, ipads, headphones, all the gadets which costs money too.
So is it that schools have no money and the situation is dire or that the money is misplaced is other areas?

This is awful! 12 in one class with no TA! Take care of yourself

IMO EHCPs aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

Only when they are vague and woolly, which many are, but if written correctly and detailed, specified and quantified they are worth it.

I feel that things in my son’s school are bad, but the school are covering it so that we don’t see much of it. I know that they’ve lost their afternoon TA, who has been redeployed to Reception due to the high number of disruptive/ violent SEN children. The issue is that I’d say 2/3rds of DS’s class have behaviour issues and I know of at least 4 with significant SEN. I just don’t see how the teacher can cope with it all.

While I’m sure that some academies are top heavy in terms of leadership positions it’s worth remembering that when a school becomes an academy and then a MAT, it now has to perform tasks that would have been performed by the LA. LAs had all sorts of managers and consultants working for them. As MATs get bigger, they need those positions too but they are more visible because they are in-house so it can look like a school becomes an academy then immediately creates a load of well paid jobs for mates of the HT.

No idea about paying for helicopters, maybe the school has a really well-off PTA.

The whole system is letting all parts of it down.

• Students with additional needs let down as no one applies for LSA/TA jobs so unable to provide required provision due to lack of staff - yes they may need a 1-1 but if we don't have the bodies we don't have them.
• Students with no additional needs being taught in unsupported classes so teacher is stretched too thin trying to be all things to all people
• Teachers who are trying their hardest, jumping through hoops, trying to support all students to the best of their ability, covering lessons, planning for other teachers who are off, planning for classes with no permenant teacher.
• SLT trying to balance the books, trying to staff the school, dealing with behviour issues which are a lot worse since we have come back from Covid, we can all complain about them, but I don't envy them their job currently.
• Parents - vast majority of which are just wanting the best for their kids and are supportive but are rightly concerned by things that happen in school. (I am both a teacher and a parent)

The government really need to reassess the whole situation, I don't have the magic answers but something needs to be done before we walk into a disaster.

IMO EHCPs aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. The only good thing is that they often come with some sort of support officer from the LA who backs up the parents a bit

Some EHC Plans are good. I would say any input from the LA is usually the least helpful part of it! The ‘support’ they offer is often unhelpful, late or just downright wrong. The only good thing is that EHCPs come with some (nearly never enough, though) funding.

@Meadowbreeze There is going to be a serious shortage of trainees coming through in the next few years too- trainee numbers are down this year, and from next year (or possibly 2024) the DfE has cut the number of accredited teacher training providers. This will reduce the number of teachers further across the country- so more than ever teachers will be able to have their pick of schools, and there are downsides to some private schools (e.g. expectations of Saturday or evening working).

@lonelyinyournightmare totally agree with all of that- I've been teaching for much less time, but I've really seen how a change in leadership can tip a school from "managing" to being over the edge. And I do think some heads are really quite naive about it as well.

@SpentDandelion I think lockdown showed us that approach simply doesn't work for the majority of students, and it also ignores subjects with a practical element that need specialist facilities such as science, art, DT, performing arts, PE etc. It would definitely reduce the need for so many teachers, though, and I do wonder if this is the way the government would like to go long term.

@TigerMummy1 Interesting to see the perspective from private. I do agree in terms of maternity cover. In the past I think some people would have done it to "get a foot in the door" with a school they view as desirable, but now people can't really afford to give up a permanent contract for anything but another permanent contract. And I agree as you say the grass isn't always greener, as it were.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl is there a reason they've made this cut? Doesn't make much sense.

There are some articles here which might explain a bit about what's happened: www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/itt-shake-universities-could-launch-legal-action-against-dfe

www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/itt-almost-two-thirds-providers-not-accredited-first-wave

Basically, for whatever reason, I assume ideological, the DfE went through a re accreditation process for ITT providers recently. And a lot of providers lost their accreditation- including really well respected providers. It's a real concern in my local area because we have lost 2 (out of 4) local providers.

I don't fully understand the process, but my understanding is that for some providers the sticking point was their placement schools. The DfE wanted teachers trained to teach in a certain way, but if placement schools use other methods, this isn't always possible.

I think this is a really poor explanation of what's happened because I don't fully understand it- I just understand we are losing ITT places from 2024, when we desperately need more.

Private isn't as bad but is still getting worse. SEND is increasing massively, pastoral issues rising. Several long standing members of staff have retired recently. Recruitment is harder - lucky to get a few applicants. Even for support staff roles we struggle to hire. Trainee teachers are absolutely awful (in most cases, not all). More and more non-specialists are being used to teach, even at A level. Cost of pensions, energy bills, resources, staff pay etc going up but they can't pass all of that onto parent fees because they are struggling too.

I understand this response and perhaps I should have given more detail. I've been working in SEN and safeguarding law as a family representative contracted by a charity. In recent years it has been policy because we have switch to endlessly re-establishing and re-clarifying what local authority and government duties are. Through 2020 my work was particularly around care proceedings, and then I had a year in serious safeguarding case review.

So genuinely, I thought I knew how it is. Part of wanting to explore being back in the classroom was knowing local schools are struggling and part of it just needing something positive alongside the safeguarding work.

I realised that I really had no idea. Teachers would still be meeting me at reception and meetings happening. I had no idea how much it is now costing them to be available.

I am very glad I have done it and do now know, and have also learnt so much from this thread. I have had some great lessons and moments, but I'm going to tell the school next week that I don't think I can go into the new year. I'm teaching the hardest groups day in and day out - the ones who have hardly had the same teacher for a full week all year. There is never any work prepared and I'm making it up as I go along from no prep but a post-it stuck between the pages of a text-book. I can't cover subjects that aren't my subjects when I'm reading it five minutes before the kids if I'm lucky.

Anyway, thanks all. You've made me feel it's ok not to be able to stay long-term, or at least, that it isn't really a choice.

Sounds horrendous. I’m glad mine only have a few years of school to go.

Hope all the eligible teachers will be using their ballot papers to express their discontent….if there was ever a time for national action it’s now

I realised that I really had no idea. Teachers would still be meeting me at reception and meetings happening. I had no idea how much it is now costing them to be available.

Tbf though, I can't imagine the circumstance where I was in school and would say no to a parent meeting or meeting with external agencies. I went to a meeting about a child in my tutor group last year when every other member of the department I was in was off isolating due to covid. And then afterwards I was in school until 6.30, and back in at 7 the next day, sorting out the cover.

But what else do you do? The child was really struggling with their mental health, but apparently didn't meet the threshold for intervention via CAMHS, so we met with their family, and tried to make suggestions and other referrals to help.

Obviously there may be times when staff aren't available to meet, or when a member of staff is absent, but schools will usually try to find someone to sit down with parents, because in general parents don't ask to meet with secondary schools at least for completely spurious reasons.

I mean, equally I did have to tell parents that we weren't providing maths intervention for non exam year groups, or that yes, their child didn't have a permanent teacher for geography right now. And in one case I had a really difficult conversation of a parent of a child with autism who wasn't coping with having so many supply teachers each day.

I do think it's something parents and external agencies should be conscious of, though, at the moment.

I have, and the impression I've got is that feeling is quite strong. But lots of teachers do find it very difficult to strike.

I have. My heart was heavy completing the ballot, but on we go.

And in a polystyrene box. How depressing. Gone are the days when staff would sit with pupils and converse, modelling good behaviour.