To feel sad that children in poverty may believe it’s their fault at Xmas?

[Amigoingmadslowly]

I am always emotional about strange things. I find so many sad things going on in this shitty world that it’s hard to see the good. Today I found myself tearful (not for the first time) at the thought that there may be children that get no Xmas presents because their parents can’t afford them. That’s sad but do these children believe it is because they have been naughty and Santa has brought them nothing? Could there be more done to make sure that doesn’t happen? This was on the back of a discussion about how many presents kids get and whether Santa brings all or parents give all and Santa gives one. Clearly there is no ‘normal’ way to do that. But at least these children are getting gifts!

Who on earth is teaching children that if they get nothing at Christmas that they are responsible?
Some people tell their children that if they are naughty then FC won't come. Some even have a creepy elf to spy on the children for FC. These children might tell other children.

@FatAgainItsLettuceTime That's just heartbreaking.

Who on earth is teaching children that if they get nothing at Christmas that they are responsible?

Christmas songs, movies and stories have Father Christmas visiting all of the children in the world unless they are naughty. ("The naughty list")

@gogohmm I assume that Dunelm do it in conjunction with a charity or local services or something so these children are in need of a gift or two.

"I don't really understand this, where and how?"

The value of second hand toys is practically nil, so people give them away to friends and acquaintances, post them on Freecycle, sell them at church sales or on eBay for £1 or leave them outside their house with a "please take" sign. I got most of DS's toys that way until he started getting fussy at the age of 4.

I once bought a huge ELC toy garage in perfect condition for £1 on eBay. I felt bad when I collected it but the seller was happy to get rid of it, as was I two years later when I sold it for £1 on Gumtree.

Sadly I’ve worked with families who are so hooked on drugs they sell their kids toys and clothes to fund their habit. Even stuff donated gets flogged on. Unless these issues are dealt with there will always be kids who get nothing sadly.

I doubt it OP. I work with families in very vulnerable circumstances and I've yet to come across a child old enough to understand Christmas who doesn't also have a rudimentary understanding of their parents means. Its not just at Christmas they see the effects of poverty. Its when there's no money for the electricity, new shoes and so on. Most children know its parents not santa who buys the gifts so expectations can be sadly realistic. Also as pp have mentioned, there are a lot of initiatives to ensure children get something at Christmas. Even when they're ignored the rest of the year.

I thought telling children only 'good' ones got gifts and 'bad' ones get nothing went out with the ark!

85yo FIL says it, but no one else, and he's always been a bit... well, Daily Mail on caffeine in his views.

When I was about 5 or 6 OP, (early ‘70’s), my sister and I woke up to no presents on Christmas Day. I knew I hadn’t been naughty so just assumed that Father Christmas didn’t come to our house because we were poor.

I assume that children who believe in Father Christmas and don’t get anything will think that it’s either because they’ve been naughty, or they’re just not worth it.

Every Christmas I think about children who are waking up to nothing and maybe getting even more abuse during the holiday because there’s more drinking going on with the adults around them. It’s not a magical time of year for too many children 50 years after my own experience.

Slightly tangential but this is one reason why I absolutely loathe the linking of Christmas presents/Santa to behaviour. I cannot imagine what kind of behaviour a child would have to exhibit before I took away presents at Christmas, and I don’t believe any reasonable non abusive parent actually tells their child Santa brought them nothing because of their behaviour. So why make stupid idle threats or talk about “naughty or nice” lists in the first place?

There are still parents who use it as a threat to control their children. Some tell their children that that toy elf reports back to FC too. DS was once told by a child that he must have been naughty as he got much less than them, that was only about 10 years ago!

I absolutely hate it too. Sadly, many parents do still attempt to control their children's behaviour through idle threats.

@Athenen0ctua - god, that's depressing. What an horrifically low standard of parenting, threatening no gifts. I honestly thought it was backward old gits who said that.

(Yes, FIL is an old git, but he's our old git)

This is why it really pisses me off when certain dickheads have “Santa” bring all the (expensive) presents like games consoles etc. utterly ridiculous behaviour that only serves to make other children feel bad. Get your kids whatever you want but for the love of god please let Father Christmas bring stocking fillers so other children don’t feel shit.

Isn't the popular Elf on the Shelf supposed to be a character who reports good and bad behaviour to Santa every night ? They didn't have this when my children were younger but I've seen them in shops and mentioned on social media so presume that they are popular.

Lots of shops here south coast have somewhere to drop presents off for poor children and the local pub as well. Sad to think of the divisions in our society, made worse lately

When I was young ( about 5) I want a spirograph set - anyone remember those ) My parents who did not have much money at the time bought it as my "main present" with a few little homemade things Oh and a ukulele - because I was wee & apparently I wanted a guitar. A neighbour gave my mum one. On Christmas Eve my mother and Granny were all very pleased , until I said I wanted a snake. They went out and looked and got one from a newsagents for about a shilling.

I agree with PP s who say nothing to do with being good , but nice to hear of charities who can rehome toys. I will look up - most of DS's are long gone but would contribute to one in my area if it is the difference between a child having a present or not. I do not refer here to games consoles , more having something to unwrap.

Some people have set themselves up for it by telling their children in previous years that all presents are from Santa. I think that’s a bad idea for all kinds of reasons, but it makes it especially difficult if you then have to explain why Santa doesn’t bring very much this year.

I agree. Some think they should be able to do FC how they want without a thought of how it could affect others. If FC brings one (reasonably priced/sized) present or a stocking then that is achievable for other parents.

Everything from us is from FC; that is a stocking and a main present. The presents being from Father Christmas is a really important part of our tradition. Sorry to those who disagree with this approach, but we will be continuing it. If we ever find ourselves short of money I will find something to wrap up from him.

The whole point is that the most vulnerable kids (the ones with heroin addict parents etc) are the ones who are most likely to miss out and then feel bad about themselves. I really hope the various Christmas appeals reach those kids.

This is true we have had stuff thrown at us because my youngest son is disabled,but whilst we are not rich we can Xmas presents for the kids ,it needs to be targeted better ,but I'm not sure how.

The youngest children (that would be of an age to believe in father christmas) are the ones that receive most donations or can be bought relatively inexpensive gifts and still be impressed.

I really feel for the older primary aged and younger high school aged kids, they really see the difference in what they (don't) receive compared to their peers.
Teenage boys are very under represented when people choose to donate gifts.

Some kids always have more then others ,we haven't been abroad since ds1 was 18 months and hes16 on boxing day, and we haven't had any kind of holiday for four years,it is what it is some kids will be jetting off every school break, you can't tell people the way they do. "Santa" is wrong .

I think it is really sad that people link behaviour to getting presents. I always made sure my 2 knew that FC gives gladly and is not mean spirited.

A while ago now I was in hospital for 3 years and it was very difficult to claim benefits. I was so grateful for all the support we got. There was the food bank, Salvation army through school and Children's services that got my DC advent calendars, Christmas gifts and Christmas food 😊