To , just once ,ask is anyone else fed up of being the squeezed middle?

[Wildandallthatjazz]

Thats it really. !

Yes , on mn , its seen as a privilege to have a mortgage, a job etc .

But sometimes it feels hard and you just wish that you got a break . Recognition of the hard slog maybe .

I am not begrudging those on benefits who got the extra payment support, its more about just wanting to have a treat / a bonus/ etc .. a spare bit of money.. a boost .. the heating on … or maybe recognition that the middle can struggle too ?

I totally accept that people can struggle and need help , sort of also feel the struggling middle are invisible ? ( and not seen to have the’ right ‘to have a little moan as it does you good sometimes )

I do think we are incredibly lucky to live in a county with a welfare state, nhs, free gp care I really do .
But sometimes, it just would be nice not to feel you are paying taxes , working as much as possible, and to be able not to feel squeezed all the time and the need to just have a grump about it .

sometimes it is good to let of steam .. when you cant IRL

and then you move on in a more positive fashion .

I read today that 42% of adults in the UK pay zero income tax.

What percentage of able-to-work adults pay income tax? Pensioners make up 19% of the UK adult population. Then there’s students (school as well as uni), SAHMs, carers, those whose disability prevents work. I’d bet it’s more like 10-15% and most of those will be part-time on minimum wage, often due to childcare or other caring responsibilities.

What he middle? Sounds like some of you are on the breadline never mind squeezed.

The DWP, its civil servants and governments since 2000 have really fucked up here. For 'traditional' 20th century roles, with women having more children with poorer medical backup, caring responsibilities for parents and men working for fifty years, the pension ages of 60 and 65 were fair - women lived longer, but in poorer health.
In return, taxpayers adopted 60 or 65 as ages to retire.Because MPs treat us badly (they could take the moral high ground and take their platinum-plated pensions two years later than the rest of us, but I'm not holding my breath), people have opted out of the government view and are now opting for semi-retirement in their fifties, taking much-needed skills and experience out of the market, just when they are needed the most.

Is

Lol at "just once". This is an extremely well covered theme on Mumsnet.

Thanks, @CopOut27, that is a massive increase. Double what it was 2 years ago! I hadn’t been keeping an eye on it and I’m genuinely shocked that it’s changed so much in such a short time.

I don’t think they are. I was a single parent on benefits in the late 70s. I could afford to heat my flat. I don’t think someone in the same position could now.

@Blossomtoes that's because energy prices were lower then, not because benefits were more generous.

My mother struggled to afford basics like bread. There weren't extras like food banks etc around then

Source?? DWP - as stated.

And yet, in the midst of this crisis, people do really stupid stuff. A middle manager in our tiny engineering business resigned today, to go self employed. He thinks he'll be better off. He earns £45K, plus 8% pension contribution, plus oT at weekends, a van, and right now a winter heating bonus of £300 monthly. His holidays are paid, there's sick pay and we're a family business, so we take it easy when it's his job to do school runs. He has four kids, three dogs and a mortgage. In Cornwall. He must have won the lottery last weekend, because otherwise, he has taken leave of his brain.

In the late 80s my single parent mother sometimes went without food to feed me and my sister. Dad had fucked off (with his secretary) and CSA didn’t even exist them. I dread to think what would have happened if she hadn’t met my genuinely awesome step dad.

However hard it gets, I categorically do not want a return to that. Not for any family.

Yep. Nothing seems to be an even playing field and the ‘middle’ seems the easiest target.

A friend of mine falsely claims benefits and works cash in hand as a lash technician. She has 3 kids and gets around £1500 a month in universial credit + £300 from her ex partner. She has had 2 cost of living payments, free school meals, vouchers in holidays etc.

Nothing seems to be an even playing field and the ‘middle’ seems the easiest target.

And will continue to be. As long as those in power can count on the “middle” turning against the poorest rather than questioning who exactly is making shedloads of money right now. Because you can get your bottom dollar that almost nobody in the top 5% gives a crap about the CoL crisis.

I used to think like that too, but it's pretty shit to know that you and your children will be seen as a demographic who it's OK to take from, but isn't deserving of any help when needed.

Absolutely this. I have a well-paid job. But I'm also disabled, a lone parent with a mortgage and have two children with additional needs. We do not get any help, with anything, are penalised by the tax system for being a one-adult household, and are then told that we can afford to pay more. We can't.

Having said that, punching down and taking it out on those at the bottom isn't going to magically improve your situation.

I wouldn't say I was taking anything out on 'those at the bottom' to improve my situation. What even defines you as being 'at the bottom' ?

Why is the assumption that all those entirely on benefits are 'at the bottom' I know a family who are solely on benefits and bring in more than my working household income combined. So they aren't 'at the bottom' by any means. It's naive to think that all people claiming benefits are worse off than those who aren't. But then I also know someone who has a disabled child who is a single parent is on benefits and can barely scrape by, has to access a food bank weekly and relies on the kindness of others.

The whole benefit system is flawed.

If the government take away their benefits, they aren't going to hand it over to the middle.

I wouldn't expect the government to take benefits off of anyone who genuinely needs it to 'hand it over' to the middle, but at the end of the day when it makes more financial sense for me to give up my full time job with the NHS which I love due to childcare costs which means I'd be working full time to pay all of my salary to someone else to care for my child, then the system is broken. No incentives anymore for parents to work anymore. It's sad. Which ultimately will mean more parents give up work, less people paying into the pot and more taking out.

You should do a benefits calculator as based on the information given you should consider applying for PIP for yourself and DLA for your children. This can then gateway entitlement to other benefits- for example, being in receipt of disability benefits could push you into the threshold for eligibility to UC, you may be entitled to additional discount on your council tax liability, you would be able to apply for a Max card to give you discounts on participating days out/attractions, you may be eligible for a blue badge, and so on.

I think the issue for most people is the double whammy of not only having less to do things that make life more pleasant, but working harder for it at the same time. That's the real kick in the gut. I work in education and have for many years. My first FT job after uni in the late 90s wasn't very well paid but the conditions and workload was fine, there was no pressure as staffing levels were adequate so all you needed to do was be great your job, reliable and a team player. It almost didn't matter that the pay was shit because the work was fine, and it covered the expenses of what made life pleasant for me, which was a drink in the pub with DH mid week and a bigger night at the weekend, maybe going to a gig, or staying in with a bottle of wine and a takeaway. I had a simple life and could manage it on my shitty salary so life was enjoyable and we didn't need or want many material things.

Now.....I am back in a similar grade of job. But bloody hell, the workload and pressure is not good at all. I have to work many hours unpaid to try and stay on top of things, which I NEVER had to do in my first job. DH has had a few promotions since we first met and is slogging his guts out for more money but he also wonders if it's all worth it. Workload, pressure and stress is horrendous.

We are of an age where we are starting to hear of people not much older than us who are having heart attacks or strokes and dying just after they've retired. I don't want to get to retirement age and feel like life has been just one long slog and then you die. We are really really really lucky in that due to an inheritance we have been able to pay our mortgage off so we have a roof over our head with no cost which I am very thankful for. But even we are noticing that the rest of our income is eaten up quickly.

If both our work pressures and workloads were the same as they were in our 20s, with salary much the same, I think price increases would be almost bearable. Liveable with anyway, because you'd understand that your money couldn't go as far. But now, everyone is working twice as hard for half the money. That's honestly what it feels like.

Can you tell I yearn for the late 90s?! The good old days!

You might want to look away now @BosaNova, but if you work and pay into a pension on top of everything else during your working life there are those that now think you shouldn't get a state pension anyway! I've read threads/comments on here recently (and on a Radio 5 Live phone in so not just planet MN) that those of us with an occupational or private pension shouldn't receive a state pension as well because that's unfair!!

Okay, I’m questioning it. What now? Nothings going to change. 1% of earners are on over 160k. However if you earn 160k your take home is 94k, 66k will be tax. How much more do you think they should pay?

But this government has moved the tax burden significantly upwards. We’ve a higher additional rate of tax than under Labour, most tax benefits have been removed from higher earners, the tax- free allowance included, while minimum wage has increased by far more than inflation and the tax-free allowance for lower earners has been significantly increased.

I think that most lower and middle earners have no idea how heavily the highest earners are taxed. The assumption is that they all dodge most of it whereas the facts are that the top 1% of earners in the UK earn 14% of all wages but pay 30% of all income tax.

It's called fiscal drag. The Chancellor stops allowing inflation increases to raise the tax thresholds... at every level.

yeh I think looking at tax burden is a good way to see it

The problem is the U.K. public require more spending than ever. We’re obese, unhealthy and ageing with dwindling younger population. People expect government intervention in virtually every aspect of their lives. But we’re not making any more money to keep up, and the lockdowns have basically tipped us over the edge.

There is far too much burden on income tax & yes I include the people earning 160k. We need more wealth tax, so increased CGT, IHT, dividends etc I would also base council tax on house value as a % like France

Sorry this is incredibly depressing

Most people havent chosen to have high mortgages, we’ve just had no choice! its either rent and pay someone else’s mortgage or take what was given for bog standard 2/3 bedroom house. Some people (not you) are making out like we’re living in mansions

the squeezed middle being spoken of are all in normal houses, nothing extravagant.

as for ‘frittering’ money away, god forbid people actually enjoyed a bit of their money that they fucking worked for!

sorry not having a go at you but its this general attitude of people had it too good for too long and it MUST come crashing down, it could have continued for most people if we had a competent government who actually had their People’s interest at heart rather their own pockets.