To , just once ,ask is anyone else fed up of being the squeezed middle?

[Wildandallthatjazz]

Thats it really. !

Yes , on mn , its seen as a privilege to have a mortgage, a job etc .

But sometimes it feels hard and you just wish that you got a break . Recognition of the hard slog maybe .

I am not begrudging those on benefits who got the extra payment support, its more about just wanting to have a treat / a bonus/ etc .. a spare bit of money.. a boost .. the heating on … or maybe recognition that the middle can struggle too ?

I totally accept that people can struggle and need help , sort of also feel the struggling middle are invisible ? ( and not seen to have the’ right ‘to have a little moan as it does you good sometimes )

I do think we are incredibly lucky to live in a county with a welfare state, nhs, free gp care I really do .
But sometimes, it just would be nice not to feel you are paying taxes , working as much as possible, and to be able not to feel squeezed all the time and the need to just have a grump about it .

sometimes it is good to let of steam .. when you cant IRL

and then you move on in a more positive fashion .

It may come you know. This is fairly new to many people. Once they get into minus in a bit, they might really be in exact same financial situation as if they were on benefits....

I work 2 days a week not one. Sorry if that was not clear. My DP gets a set hourly wage, the shifts are just standard - no extra pay. The overtime is not guaranteed. It might push us up a grand or two at most and then we will probably have to pay back the £600 tax credits we have been given this year.

I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I feel that is pretty unfair and I hope payment for furlough will be loaded towards those that benefited from it.

I see this argument constantly & it makes me despair at the lack of intelligence! How can you not pay someone when you have forced their job to stop? And no I wasn't furloughed & yes I worked throughout. The idea that you can do a lockdown & prevent people from working & tell them to stay home but without any money is dumber than dumb.

In work maybe, but what about full time work? Many people will work just a few hours a week so that they can claim as much as possible.

That’s hard for your DP, if he’s on minimum wage (or very close to it) yet having to do shifts. Is that a permanent arrangement?

maybe look to the employers who used the furlough scheme to pay workers while being very rich themselves - people whose workplaces were closed had no choice - did you expect bar staff to go and stand in empty pubs all night?

I think one of the problems is that we have, as a country, certainly the middle classes and upper WC, had it pretty good for a long time until recently. Very low interest rates have meant people have big mortgages and big houses, we have got used to having nice cars on finance, regular foreign holidays, disposable income to spend on whatever. All things that were very nice but were only there because the cost of living was actually artificially low. Now we have the perfect storm of post Brexit, post covid spending, war in Europe and the financial markets are taking the strain but as previous interest rates were very low for a very long time we now struggle to adjust our lifestyles to what we can afford. I'm not sure more government hand outs is the answer really. I think we all need a wake up call that actually frittering our money away was a luxury and that isn't the way forward. Downsizing our lives (fewer "treats", smaller mortgages etc) and reducing our expectations is probably where we need to head.

Absolutely. I would consider myself to be in this category even though we don't have a mortgage. Over the past 10 years myself and partner have always worked, mostly full time except when I was on mat leave and for a couple of years when I was a student I worked part time. We've always been low earners and we're previously entitled to some child tax credit to top up our income.

Last year myself and my partner both got new jobs and in doing so doubled our household income. We've been very frugal over the last year paying off debt we accrued over the last few years (due to simply not having enough coming in to cover the bills). We haven't seen any benefit at all for our hard work and lost our entitlement to benefits, so no help with cost of living crisis. We've lost far more than We've gained. It's a massive kick in the teeth to work so hard and never get anywhere. We live in a high poverty area (because that's the only place we can afford to rent) and it is frustrating that 90% of people are unemployed yet have more disposable income than us. I don't blame them at all, I blame the people in charge!

Yes permanent. The shifts are not too bad really 6.30am to 3.30pm and 9.30am to 6pm. In his last job he did nights one week and days the next which was a lot worse.

DWPs own estimate is 4% of benefit expenditure was £8.6 billion lost due to Fraud and Error in 21/22.

£8.6 billion!

I agree with you in theory. I earn a bit above the UK average salary. I’m single so CoL in general is higher than couples, but have no kids. Having a moan every now and then is cathartic.

Our country has been massively screwed over, but mostly by the electorate. We voted for this. Brexit, Tory party, public clamouring for lockdown. Interest rates were always going to rise at some point, but the public loved low-rate mortgages. The problems we’re facing are largely due to things the citizens wanted so it is our own (collective) fault we’re in this mess.

So what alternatives are there at this point? No CoL payment for those on the lowest incomes so they (mostly) have to cut down on even the most basic food or have dangerously cold homes? Children whose parents refuse to work taken in to care (expensive as well as appalling)? Further reduce funding for the NHS / schools / care homes?

Life is quite crap right now for loads of people. But, as part of the squeezed middle, I’d prefer to cut down on the disposable income stuff, wear blankets / jumpers at home and switch to cheap supermarkets (rather than Tesco). The alternatives aren’t acceptable.

DH and I both work full time in decent jobs but we are definitely feeling the squeeze as a family. Really feel for those on lower incomes.

I read today that 42% of adults in the UK pay zero income tax.
I guess that is why those of us who do pay, feel pretty wrung dry.

DWPs own estimate is 4% of benefit expenditure was £8.6 billion lost due to Fraud and Error in 21/22.

Source? Sorry to be that person, but last time I checked more money was “saved” by mistakenly underpaying benefits than was lost to fraudulent claims.

I don’t think they are. I was a single parent on benefits in the late 70s. I could afford to heat my flat. I don’t think someone in the same position could now.

If we hadn’t locked down we would be in such a strong financial position in the world at the moment. I do begrudge it if I’m honest.

It's not only the currently being the squeezed middle but the fact their no end in site. If say we said hey we owe X due to COVID which divided by the population is Y per person deducted at % per month I could happily live with that.

To me the threat of higher tax, higher council tax, cuts to essential services take away the incentive to go out and better yourself. What's the point in putting in a 48 hour week working overtime to lose 40% to income tax before you even start on NI etc.

It would be nice if we set a lifetime maximum tax take and lived within our means as a country.

@FacebookPhotos

That stat is fairly well known and publicised.

committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/174208/pac-dwp-excuses-for-unprecedented-and-unacceptable-levels-of-benefit-fraud-and-error-dont-stand-up/

Yes - when my dad left my mum, she had her mortgage interest paid I'm sure (I was little so I'm not 100%) as part of her benefits

And people do have sympathy with it. I wholeheartedly agree that it's a shit situation that is going to get even shittier for a lot of people but anger should be directed at the top. The government could mitigate against these issues, they could take measures to improve rhe situation,but they choose not to because they'd rather line their own pockets and those of their friends.

Having said that, punching down and taking it out on those at the bottom isn't going to magically improve your situation. If the government take away their benefits, they aren't going to hand it over to the middle. They're going to keep it and society is going to fracture even further alongside all the knock-on effects of increased poverty.

Florida is apparently benefitting from more open economy back then. I thought it would be the case, but also the war has impacted hugely too.

@Erber

So the point you’re making is it doesn’t pay to work (at that salary). It’s a huge issue as the benefits bill is too high relative to taxes raised but if taxes increase too much, it is little incentive for ‘average’ earners as you said yourself. To keep increasing corporation tax depresses economic growth which is one big reason we’re in this mess. No easy answers others than it’s going to be painful.

Yes, we feel exactly like this, both work, teenage dds with one going off to uni next year which we will have to support. Freezing cold at home as we can’t afford the heating, trying to save every penny we can and no spare for treats. Worked all the way through covid at home which was a struggle, all of us trying to work and kids doing school work, no furlough for us, and it fact we probably worked longer hours during covid as we just couldn’t walk away from it and no extra money, I’m worried sick about energy as potentially no help for us. We do have a big mortgage, dh was a contractor and lost a big chunk of his pay due to ir35, we just about managed that but this cost of living crisis is pushing us way beyond our means. Not many options, can’t really downsize as nothing selling at the moment. I do appreciate that we have a reasonably nice home and we are lucky but just feel that we need a little break.

Some of those adults will be full time students, some will be disabled, unwell, or carers, some of them will be people who are working but earn under the income tax threshold for whatever reason.

Actually recent research showed greater wealth polarisation in Germany. Not sure about the others.

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