To find this incredibly annoying-son kissing baby

[Shandyinthejarro]

I've posted before under a different username and I know a lot of you will think I'm being silly.

I have a lovely, sweet, kind 7 year old son and a 9 month old baby. My son seems to have an irresistible urge to kiss the baby and its driving me around the bend. I mean, it's seriously starting to impact me mentally. First World problems, whatever.

For several months he has been kissing her over and over, either on the hand on the face. It's started off as being the loudest, slurpiest, smacking sound. He was deliberately kissing her in a way that made the most noise. The noise more than drove me mad: it actually distressed me at the time, especially if he did it when I was breastfeeding her. I don't want to start using very dramatic language, but sometimes I wanted to cry as the noise kept happening over and over, sometimes very much in my space.

Now, he kisses her in a much more quiet way but in an open mouthed sort of way that often leaves saliva on her face or hand. This does my head in too. If I'm picking her up off the ground when they are playing together, he will automatically grab her hand to kiss it goodbye, which means sometimes her arm gets pulled back as I'm lifting her. I've explained the dangers of this over and over. Since she has started crawling, he will also lift her hand to kiss it and it destabilises her as she is on all fours. I've spoken to him about that too, but the urge seems to be too strong to resist. Baby generally starts whinging when he does it and we have explained how he needs to respect her space and back off when he hears the whinging noise.

My baby has been sleeping absolutely terribly the past few weeks. I mean waking up every 90 minutes all night and hardly napping in the day. I was becoming a zombie. For the past three nights, she has been sleeping in good long stretches of 4 hours or so and I feel like a new woman. Last night was a good night and this morning I was having a dream where I was listening to music and the music gradually turned into the sound of a baby whinging, that dreaded sound. Soon, I woke up and realised the baby whinging was mine. My son was lying beside me looking very worried. The first thing he said was 'it's my fault, I kissed her hand and she woke up'.

It was 7.30, so a 'lie in' anyway but I had been in a deep sleep, the baby was asleep and I felt so upset that this very rare occasion was interrupted by his kissing.

I adore my son, I really do. He gets a huge amount of love, affection and attention from me and my husband. We make a lot of time for his emotional well being and I know he is a very happy child with a huge amount of love in his heart. We have talked about the kissing and he says its because he just loves the baby so much. My husband says I need to get over the kissing thing as our boy just loves his sister and we shouldn't stand in the way of that relationship.

However I cannot help this visceral reaction and a few times I have physically batted my sons hand away when he has gone to to kiss the baby today. I've lost count of how many times it has happened since this morning. I'm actually a bit of a Ned Flanders goodie two-shoes type who never swears and there have been a few times I've felt like screaming 'f* off!' at my 7 year old child! I haven't and wouldn't but this isn't normal surely!

Other than this issue, I'm very happy, no PND, we are a happy family, all is going well, and I generally love motherhood and have a very high threshold for the ups and downs of a mum's life. I normally take everything in my stride but this is driving me so crazy that I asked my husband to take my son out with the baby for a walk as I seriously need some space.

Any advice!

Are you sure wrt PND? Really sorry OP and I’m trying to be gentle but this doesn’t sound anywhere near the realms of normal. I adore the bond and affection between my children and have always loved the attention they give the new sibling.

It's better than him trying to hurt her.

@NCFT0922 I have another child in the middle who loves cuddling and playing with the baby and it doesn't annoy me at all. Surely if I had PND I would find both those situations annoying? I don't know. Maybe I'm just really tired. I appreciate your gentle tone by the way

Despite all the love and attention he gets it looks like he’s jealous of her. It’s attention seeking. If he just kissed her normally at normal times I’d agree with your DH, but making as much of a kissy noise as possible and doing it open mouthed to leave saliva on her isn’t normal. He can see now that it presses your buttons and brings your attention on to him.

I wonder if (subconsciously or otherwise) the kissing has actually become an attention seeking thing rather than a display of affection?

Could you try to ignore the kissing (unless it’s hurting or upsetting the baby) but give your son extra attention or praise when he is doing something else?

I think 7 is old enough to not keep repeating things like moving her arm to kiss it when it means she loses her balance/gets upset. That would drive me mad and I'd tell the 7 year old off sternly every repeated time. I think for the rest of it if doesn't bother the baby, then it shouldn't bother you. If it bothers the baby, you need to be stern and not allow it to continue. I'd be annoyed at being woken up too!

@Shandyinthejarro could it be that it’s because he is acting rather young for his age perhaps? I’ve just read your post again and noted the loud noises he would make initially. Maybe it’s the subconscious not expecting the dramatics from a slightly older child? I have a similar gap; my eldest is 8 and my youngest isn’t yet 1 and she is slightly more “older” in her approach to the baby, for want of a better term. example; the youngest (3) do very loud shushes and baby voices and sloppy kisses, the eldest will be less “fussy” but still affectionate and speaks to the baby in her normal voice; good morning Polly and a gentle kiss on the forehead. DS2 is more likely to say; baby wakey wahh wahh in a baby voice.
I don’t know if this makes sense?

OK we are getting somewhere. Thank you. I've considered this but I literally don't know how much more attention we could give him. Also, I remember having a very sick baby sibling and everyone telling me I was jealous of them, and I wasn't! It infuriated me, so I didn't want to go down this road without being very thoughtful about it. Thanks.

Remember that in your son’s eyes “any attention is good attention” - he’s getting your attention for doing this, and it’s quite clever as you can hardly get annoyed over him showing love, but it’s his way of checking that he’s still important to you and showing you that he needs your attention too.

Can you redirect it to a cheek stroke or something? Soon the baby will be walking anyway and then you can kind of start them off playing together.

I know your 7 year old probably seems suddenly huge and grown up, but he’s still a little boy, checking that his mum still loves him as much, now that she has a new baby.

I have found sometimes that the eldest one seems more annoying each time you have a new baby...your patience wears thinner as you are knackered, and your expectations of them grow higher as they seem that much older. It's nature, to need to spend more time caring for the one whose survival entirely depends on you.

Having recognised that, you now need to fight it a bit, and make sure your eldest gets enough love and support even if it's not always from you. I think the kissing is connection-seeking behaviour, seeking connection from you and the baby. So step up the times when you are physically affectionate with the eldest, and make times for the baby to be affectionate. So hug both on sofa whilst watching TV etc. We used to do a special fist bump from the baby, or the baby wants you to stroke her hair but only when she's awake. Or the baby has said you can cuddle her teddy, she's passing her cuddling you through the teddy. HTH

Also, you have three young children and when I was breastfeeding I also used to get that wild feeling of annoyance now and then, like o just couldn’t deal with anyone else touching or needing me, just for a bit. I assume it’s some cavewoman thing to ensure we fully care for the helpless newborn but it’s a very claustrophobic feeling.

Yes it does make sense. My son is average maturity for his age, I would say but I do think he had a nature which can be a bit compulsive and unfortunately I recognise myself in that, which is maybe why I get so triggered!

He's just a little boy who's experienced a huge life change. Could others in the family not try to distract him by doing other things.

Read up on misaphonia op... Do other noises drive you bonkers?
Wish I had realised I so obviously have it years ago. I can literally feel my blood pounding round my body when dc used to play with toy cars noisily..

I think you have got a bit of sensory overload and irritability due to hormones/tiredness, because you are overreacting - in the nicest possible way you mainly need to manage yourself not your son.

I think as a PP says there’s probably a bit of attention seeking - a new baby inevitably sucks attention and this is a great way of putting it back on him. It’s also probably a genuine expression of affection.

Give him a bit of 1 on 1 time, remove him from the baby every time he leaves saliva, pulls her arm, or climbs on you when you are feeding. He needs to keep having those boundaries reinforced. Learn to tune out the lip smacking. Try and get more rest. Remember this will pass.

I'm going to get jumped on by this but this is a great time to start to drum in notions of consent.

You need to gently but consistently stop him doing it. Explain that the baby doesn't like that expression of affection, and that 'I can't help it because I love her' is really, really not an acceptable answer.

Sadly the normalisation of such behaviour like your husband is doing is a cause of many, many problems in society today. It's (sadly) never too early to start teaching the respect for others' personal space.

Thanks everyone for being so kind. I was expecting a bit of a lashing and I feel guilty for even saying these things about my lovely boy.

I like the idea of redirecting the kissing to a stroke and I agree that something primal seems to happen to me which is related to breastfeeding.

I really am a very, very affectionate person myself. I snuggle my son constantly. I tell him I love him several times a day and factor in very frequent mum and son times, where we snuggle and watch his favourite show, go through his Pokemon book, play games together and justbthe other night I lay beside him and stroked his back as he went to sleep and told him all the things I love about him over and over. Me and my husband make a big, big effort with all our kids to know how special they are and how much we adore them. We have a secret handhold where I squeeze 3 times as code for 'I love you' and we do that all the time. We write him notes telling him how much we love him. I honestly cannot think of any other ways that I can make him feel seen, loved and heard. And the evidence really is in his nature. Everyone comments on what a happy, loving child he is.

Thanks again for listening everyone, I felt a bit cra,y when I wrote this!

Do you actually have any experience with kids?! I don’t think anyone is going to jump on you, consent is important - it’s just that this isn’t going to help the OP - because her actual problems are 1) her son is feeling a bit neglected and thus attention seeking and 2) she is knackered and thus irritable

I think you are exhausted and hypersensitive. I remember those days.

asking for DH to take him out was the right thing to do. Don’t make DS feel too guilty for loving the baby , gently ask him not to disturb when she is awake or crawling.

This seems like a good example of the theory that all behaviour is communication. It sounds to me as if he’s feeling a bit unsure and that he’s looking for ways to check whether he still has the same close bond with you as he did as a younger child- both by looking for attention and by inserting himself into the mother-baby bond you have with your baby (which I imagine is what is producing such a strong reaction in you).

As children get older, they often need to take a step back in maturity every now and then for comfort and reassurance. I’d try maybe extra cuddles, suggest you read him a story one night if he’s no longer having that habitually etc. I’d also try to redirect his kisses into something more helpful- can he help do things for the baby eg bring the bits you need for a nappy change, help you prepping food, or whatever it is, and praise him for doing them. Try to find ways to show him that your bond with the baby is no challenge to your bond with him and that he can still be your little boy. 7 seems huge when you also have a baby and younger child but it’s still just a little one really.

Yes many!

Just wanted to say @Shandyinthejarro that I completely understand your rage at eldest waking the baby. Rightly or wrongly, I would have been absolutely raging too. I’ve currently got a breastfed newborn (and toddler) and I think you forget just how desperate one can feel regarding sleep in the early days. Totally normal.

I agree with this angle, babies are able to express their needs and that includes personal space, and that should be respected to a point (safety, etc excluded).

It's good practice for your son to learn to respect the needs of his much-loved baby sibling, and to build a two way relationship, not one where the baby is merely acted upon.

Other points raised are good as well, with considerations around the 7yo's attention seeking and your own overwhelm. A lot is going on, so it makes sense you're struggling.

I also agree about the personal space thing and we have spoken at length about respecting space and listening for cues as to whether the other person likes what you are doing or not. This is important to me as a mother to instill this.

Ask him what he’d like to do with you? It might be he actually wants to be taken to the park or play whatever game? It’s always worth asking people what attention they want. And this will help him feel noticed.

Also it’s evident from this you are a very physical family, so his physicality with his sister is in this context. It doesn’t change how you have to manage it, obviously, but it might help to know it when you are taking to him about it.