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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask you how you would deal with this?

69 replies

Catagonia · 09/11/2022 07:40

I am at my wits end.

i have two girls. They are 8 and almost 5. They are generally good girls, well behaved and well mannered when they are in school etc. Very different personalities (8 is generally quite bookish and quiet, while 5ish is a bit of a tornado) but they are close and they get on well.

They share a bedroom by choice. Bunk beds. Bedtimes are a total and utter nightmare. The behaviour is absolutely dreadful. It’s like a switch flicks after 7pm.

They simply will. Not. Stay. In. Bed.

We go to their room, I read them a story each, they get into bed. The light is off but the hall light is on to let them read (8 is an avid reader, obv youngest can’t read yet) and also because they aren’t keen on the dark.

All seems settled and then chaos starts as soon as I leave. They are up, books/toys everywhere. Screaming, shouting, banging etc. we are up and down all evening. Returning them to bed. The minute we leave they are up again. Doesn’t matter how angry we get or consequences outlined etc.

I have been sitting for the past few weeks on the floor of their room until youngest falls asleep. This is the only way I can think of to get them to stay the fuck in bed (other than literally tying them to the bunk bed - perhaps a step too far…). Because they don’t give a single solitary fuck about how angry we get. Or any consequences. But this means I’m losing my evenings because they aren’t setting till gone 10, even with me in the room. Tossing and turning and whispering and asking me for drinks etc.

Last night I was getting really stressed out because I had a lot to do (as you do in an evening). So once I settled them (they seemed quiet and tired) I left them. Came back 15 mins later when I heard the usual riot, they had taken all the bed covers etc off the beds and were playing some game. So that was me sat there till half ten. Got nothing done. Cried.

The youngest goes absolutely off her fucking head at any attempt to remove her toys/books from her or put the light off. I am talking anger and screaming like she is being murdered, that would bring social services to the front door if a neighbour heard. She is incredibly belligerent. I really am at the end of my rope with her. She is bright and funny but a real wildcard and I really don’t know how to deal with her. She started school this year and her behaviour at home has been fairly atrocious since. I know she’s keeping her shit together all day and letting it all go at home but it’s so hard.

in the Christmas holidays, I am separating them. Putting eldest in a different bedroom (which she is excited about, youngest is not). But it won’t help - youngest will just be in and out of her room all night.

i feel like a complete fucking failure as a parent.

OP posts:
Catagonia · 09/11/2022 07:45

Should also add that my husband does help. Or tries to. He’s up and down with them all evening too. Refuses to sit with them because he thinks it’s counterproductive (and it probably is) but I can’t bear the chaos of it.

he does all the housework and getting ready for the morning while I’m sitting up there n

OP posts:
ijustcouldntthinkofausername · 09/11/2022 07:46

I don't have experience of this yet personally as my DC is only 19mo however I have nieces and I have friends who say their girls can be like this too. Maybe they are playing up together and separating them might help?! I have no idea, but hope so OP 🤞
Like you, I do bits of housework and wash loads and work on my laptop for work in the evenings when DS is down so I understand you're stressing out getting nothing done!
Do they have a TV in the room? Could you put a film on for them whilst you do your bits, not every night but just on those nights when you have a list as long as your arm!

ijustcouldntthinkofausername · 09/11/2022 07:47

My friend got one of those Santa spy cams and set it up about this time and used that right up until Xmas 🤣 if that could work for you?

disappear · 09/11/2022 07:49

If they are sharing by choice, do you have a spare room which could be a playroom? Then you could have no toys in the bedroom. Maybe that would work. Otherwise, separate them.

GAH3 · 09/11/2022 07:50

7 seems very early for an 8 year old. Maybe split the bedtimes so 5yo goes first?

Do you have another room with a bed in it? You could tell them to stop messing about or one of them has to sleep in there (or just move one of them).

Theunamedcat · 09/11/2022 07:50

Put the beds in one room toys in another

Newcatbrowntail · 09/11/2022 07:51

They need separate bedtimes. 7pm is far too early for an 8year old. There comes a time when you share your evenings with your children

poopaloobop · 09/11/2022 07:54

If you can, separate them.
My DCs are older but I'm sorry to say that bedtime can still be a nightmare and I'm not often free before 10pm. My youngest just doesn't want to sleep (or read quietly). It is indeed exhausting.
We had exactly the same problem if a switch being flicked at 8pm and the DCs would go mad, and no end of niceness / persuasion / shouting / consequences helped Angry. But, there were much worse if sharing a room.
Good luck Flowers

BakedTattie · 09/11/2022 07:56

You need to separate them if you can.

Catagonia · 09/11/2022 07:57

Sorry to clarify - they aren’t going to bed at 7. This is when the bedtime routine begins. They go bed for 7.45-8ish. I’ve tried doing it separately, doesn’t work because 5 refuses to settle if her sister is downstairs (and then it starts up when her sister comes up later). I am hoping this might change when we separate them

OP posts:
HeyHeyHeyyyyy · 09/11/2022 07:57

I also have two girls. 6 & 7. We don't have the option of two rooms, so they also share a bunk bed.

6yo goes to bed at 7pm. Once she falls asleep (usually about 8pm) the 7yo one goes in.
You should try this. Your 8yo could read downstairs while 5yo goes to sleep.

Ponoka7 · 09/11/2022 07:57

I agree with separating them. The bedtime might be too early for both of them.

HeyHeyHeyyyyy · 09/11/2022 07:58

Catagonia · 09/11/2022 07:57

Sorry to clarify - they aren’t going to bed at 7. This is when the bedtime routine begins. They go bed for 7.45-8ish. I’ve tried doing it separately, doesn’t work because 5 refuses to settle if her sister is downstairs (and then it starts up when her sister comes up later). I am hoping this might change when we separate them

You need to persist. Your bedtime routine is late for 5yo.

Frieya · 09/11/2022 07:59

Make the bedroom as boring as possible as others have said no toys etc. One book only each night for the avid reader which is read then off to bed. Maybe off to bed 30 minutes later than normal as they are up and noisy anyway? Explain sharing a room has to be earned so behaviour changes otherwise they are separated and if good behaviour persists for an entire week then at the weekends they can share but only continues if they behave otherwise from the very next night separation restarts for rest of weekend and especially Monday to Friday . You have to be firm otherwise you have to expect this to spill over into other things too. I’ve experienced it. If they say don’t care, then you have to take away something else they enjoy even if it “punishes” you too cause you enjoy it they don’t need to know and there will be other things that you can enjoy in time.

HeyHeyHeyyyyy · 09/11/2022 07:59

HeyHeyHeyyyyy · 09/11/2022 07:58

You need to persist. Your bedtime routine is late for 5yo.

Sorry, read your message wrong. Thought you said the bedtime routine starts at 7:45.

Nopeforme · 09/11/2022 07:59

The bedroom needs to be boring. No toys, only books and some cuddly toys for comfort. The 5 year old needs help with managing her anger and understanding that she will be treated differently to her older sister. Have you tried any particular parenting techniques with her?

adomizo · 09/11/2022 07:59

Yeah agree that 7pm is too early unless they get up exceptionally early. They don't sound very tired. Could they not watch TV for 30/45 mins and then go to bed with the routine and story etc... You could still get stuff done. If they are generally good then I would wonder why they are behaving like this ? Could you have some reward system to work towards together for a treat ? Take a lot of toys out of the room ? It's not really going to improve by separating them by the sounds of it....

Brefugee · 09/11/2022 08:00

i wouldn't be waiting to separate them, I would be doing it this weekend. And you can let them share on, say, Christmas Eve, if they behave every night until then.

The run-up to Christmas was often my best time for enforcing rules, that they just got used to and we kept them going.

Catagonia · 09/11/2022 08:00

Lol I’ve tried an earlier bedtime for younger. Just an extra hour of chaos/sitting on the floor.

And what happens if she’s still awake at 10pm which is not unusual? When does eldest come to bed?

it’s like, you can give them the best bedtime routine in the world. You can’t make them sleep

OP posts:
Onlyforcake · 09/11/2022 08:00

Separate bedtimes. That worked for my two around these ages, with them it was messing around in the bathroom etc. One would stay up allowed to read, two I'd hustle upstairs, getting her settled. Then 45 mins later one had her bedtime. It really changed things.

Onlyforcake · 09/11/2022 08:02

In a separate bedroom using the back in bed method she's not going to bounce of her sister, divide and conquer. It's worth a shot.

Frieya · 09/11/2022 08:02

P.S. we all feel like failures especially when we compare our own to others so definitely don’t do that. It’s a learning process and sometimes you go round in circles trying to sort a problem. Persist you’ll get there

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 09/11/2022 08:03

GAH3 · 09/11/2022 07:50

7 seems very early for an 8 year old. Maybe split the bedtimes so 5yo goes first?

Do you have another room with a bed in it? You could tell them to stop messing about or one of them has to sleep in there (or just move one of them).

This. Mine are similar ages (8 and 6) and when we used to put them down together it was a festival of pain. Now one of us puts the younger one to bed (and stays til she's asleep) and the older one does her homework (reading, spellings) downstairs with the other parent and then watches an episode of something with the grown up that the little one wouldn't like (Tracy Beaker atm). If separates them, calms everyone down and stops the nonsense.

SerenaTee · 09/11/2022 08:06

What would happen if you left them to it? So ignore all the behaviour, refuse to go back upstairs and see them, let them run wild etc. But make it clear that there will be consequences the next day - no screen time, loss of a treat etc. Then follow through on your threats, your OP sounds like they’re ruling the roost in the evenings, I’d tell them I’m stopping all the work I’m doing to get them to stay in bed, they can do what they like but you’ll respond accordingly the next day. Then it’s their choice how to behave.

Kerzehmet · 09/11/2022 08:07

It's hard OP and I only have one small enough to need help with bedtime. And she can be difficult enough.
I used to be all smug and 'just tell them it's bedtime and leave them to it' Blushbecause my first was easy and this worked for him. My DD? Not so much! The universe getting its own back!

And after nearly 5 years of dicking around and minimal sleep you take the path of least resistance. And if that means sitting on the bedroom floor in the dark for 2 hours then so be it.

I would say definitely separate them now and strap in for a few weeks of tears and tantrums (from all of you) to hopefully come out the other side. It sounds like your 5 year old might benefit from some focussed time if she's a bit overwhelmed with all the changes of school, and maybe your 8 year old might rise to the challenge of being more grown up and starting to self-settle?

We have the Calm app on an iPad which I wouldn't be without. My DD chooses a story or music to listen to each night and it's a good tool to use to 'reset' if she wakes in the night. -'ok let's have a quick wee and snuggle back in and choose a new story'

Good luck.