ASN spent £200 on game refusing to refund

[MissesG]

I am teaching my sixteen year old daughter with ASN about money. She is cognitively underdeveloped and behaves as someone much younger. first she started with smaller amounts of money and less that she had to buy with now she has got her own debit card and we built up to bigger amounts which she was handling mostly well.

But one night she got carried away impulsively bought something expensive on moviestarplanet over all she spent in the region of £200 on the online game in the space of 2 months with the debit card and used up the virtual assets she got with it. I only found out when she didnt have the money to use on what it was intended for! I was expecting this sort of thing might happen, but know most places protect people against this sort of thing and thought shed have the money back soon. I checked and sure enough according to their terms, they dont accept purchases made by under 18s without parental permission, nor do they accept cards used by under 18s.

First I got her to contact the business and be honest that she had done it without my permission and used her under 18s card, with receipts of every transaction. The response she got was that all sales are final and that they will not be refunding! I sent my own email explaining to confirm, and they told me the same thing and that all sales are final and that the case is closed!

She really needs that £200. I am really disgusted and angry and have now told them she has ASN and warned them that I will be opening up a dispute with the bank. Im not sure if ive got a leg to stand on or what that entails or if moviestarplanet can still refuse to refund.

OP I think there's two sides to this, 1) expecting the company to refund, that's not going to happen, and I think you're wrong to expect it, and 2) how your daughter is supported to manage finances, for which I think you're getting an unwarranted hard time.

ASN or not, she's 16 and earnt the money, so it's hers to spend. AGain, ASN or not, there's not an automatic right for you as her parent to control that. It may be that she doesn't have capacity to manage her money, but that would need to be assessed, after which a way of you being able to control how she spends might be put in place.
However, she may well have capacity, and without a formal assessment we legally have to assume she does, and she has just made an unwise decision. In which case from here on out, you need to look at how best to help her understand how to manage her money. This situation, however sad, is a good lesson for her to take forward that money is gone when it's spent, and that she needs to balance immediate want with long term options.

You may need some easy read guides to finances, and some social stories for her, but there's no reason to think that at this point all control needs to be taken off her. See it as a learning experience that you both can find a way forward from.

You'll both get there, and she wouldn't be the first person, ASN or not, to mess up with money and then regret it, and she just needs some guidance for the future

The bank might be able to help you. Take her with you and speak to them.

@MissesG why aren’t you using a card you can monitor (gohenry or whatever)? Yes it costs a monthly amount but you can see what’s going on and step in, can’t you?

If you were “ Covered” that means every Tom, Dick or Harry could claim Autism and get away with spaffing money up the wall on games or other rubbish and get a refund.
It’s up to you to supervise very closely any money .
Painful lesson, but this is down to you if your daughter can’t be responsible yet.

YABU I'm afraid - you freely admit that you thought she would do something like this, but feel that after being taught a 'lesson' that you should be able to get that money back.

Virtual or not, she spent the money and received what she ordered - she's not entitled to a refund.

"I thought this might happen, but I couldn't be bothered stopping it happening myself and expected the company to fund it"

Yes, this.

My child did something similar 18 months back. Except it was on my card.
Now I get emails from the games platform with every purchase (even the freebies)

Leaving aside what you should be doing as a parent or not, as that's not helpful to get you a refund, I disagree with a lot of the posters here about ASN. Ultimately I would not use ASN to argue for a refund. You need to look at the terms and conditions and see what the company may be in breach of. The terms and conditions almost certainly will not say anything about ASN. But if you can point to something they have not complied with in relation to taking payments from under 18s, that is your hook to argue for a refund.

You can set parental limits on whatever games console she uses to stop her spending. I'd also consider something like a rooster account where u get notifications of spending

I work in online gaming. The level of disrespect people have for our rapidly growing industry is so frustrating. I work hard,
with a niche skill set and I get paid well accordingly. Hundreds of thousands of people derive enjoyment from the things I build, yet there’s always people who think that we can just give things away for free “it’s not fair you have to pay for add ons” or want refunds because they have not had a “real”product.
Would you ask for a refund from a cinema because you didn’t get a DVD at the end of the movie? Would you ask a games arcade for your daughters pound coins back at the end of the day because you didn’t intend for her to spend all afternoon in there?
we have spent time developing the game, outlaid thousands of pounds, these things aren’t “free” for us!!

Lets break it down. Who do you think should pay for it? These are goods just like items in a shop. They've been planned, designed, work put into them etc the same as a piece of music that you buy. Options:

1. it comes out of the profit of the company. This often won't hit the person at the top, it will probably come out of the wages of developers, admin staff and so on.
2. Your daughter pays for the items she bought. Reading the terms and conditions it seemed she didn't tell the truth so she may have her account deleted anyway losing everything if you draw it to attention.
3. You say it's your fault and you pay. Don't think this teaches a good lesson.

What lesson does it teach her if she gets the money back? Wouldn't that make her more likely to do it again? No consequences.

I'm actually not sure if kids should be allowed to buy this type of thing with parents permission. But then at 16 someone could be married and fending for themselves. I had a classmate in high school who moved out on his own at 16, he lived in a terraced house and he managed his bills, laundry, food, everything, while going to sixth form. Now, your daughter has additional needs so that's very different but I mean in terms of a blanket ban on 16 year olds buying game items. If they can live independently there's no argument there for them not being able to buy these game items. I do think you should have to be 16. It just puts too much pressure on otherwise. Games are addictive and designed to be fiendishly so. I've heard of people spending thousands on little items and so on.

At the end of the day I guess you'll do what you think is best but I do hope you consider our viewpoints considering you asked for them!

You have to be realistic in how much companies will police people buying their products... if your daughter confirmed she was over 18 and you let her do it without adequate supervision then i wouldn't refund you either tbh

That's not really the issue here though. Potentially (it's not clear) the company has taken money from an U18 in breach of its own terms and conditions. That's the basis on which it could be argued that a refund should be given. Nothing to do with ASN or a general desire for free stuff.

If you are trying to teach her to budget wisely then it's a much more beneficial lesson in the long run that if the money is gone it's gone, not that she can stamp her feet and demand it back.

If the money magically reappears, then she won't have learnt her lesson. It's hard and it's crap but in the long run this will probably more helpful to her. Better 200 now than 2000 later

@TheLette
Potentially (it's not clear) the company has taken money from an U18 in breach of its own terms and conditions.

A pp has been on the game website. The DD is the cardholder therefore there is no breach:
If you are under 18 years of age or do not pay your own bills, you must get permission from your parents, the person who pays your bills, or the cardholder.

@TheLette the OP states “I thought someone might say something like this. She couldnt eat £200 worth of sweets 😂 Thats not really comparable. Its a game. The items are virtual. they havent lost physical goods.” so exactly the issue. The OP has no respect for the goods her daughter has received because they are not physical

They will promptly come back with the response posted above when they say clearly that since the game is targeted at very young children under the age of 15 that they recommend that parents involve themselves when their children are playing the game. Which the OP hasn’t done.

OP you do need to help your dd to manage her money, firstly to set up savings accounts then to keep track of what she has spent and to manage what she spends on games, treats, clothes etc. Just trying to get money back from companies whose t and c you have ignored is not teaching her anything. You need to be very active with her so that every time she gets paid you decide together how she is going to save/ spend her money that month .

The website says if under 18 ….you need parent or cardholders permission

Fair enough. I was going off something the OP had said. Tbf I'd still fight tooth and nail for a refund until they decided I was too much of a nuisance to deal with (although I don't think I would be in this situation in the first place so maybe what I would do is irrelevant 😂)

Not their fault though is it. YABU

If you expected something like this to happen, and it happened, why are you surprised?!

This is a failure to safeguard by YOU. It's not a random business' job to educate your child about financial sense. Why should they cover your parenting fail?

Either she's responsible enough to spend her own money, or she isn't. If she isn't, then you should have taken some responsibility for this - banks will offer some form of third party access, and most banks can also block cards for online purchases or ATM withdrawals or whatever.

Is ASN additional support needs? Because banks are shit hot on vulnerable customers at the moment (big review from the FCA in the last few years mean most banks are renewing and upgrading all policies) so get in contact and discuss options.

@ElmoNeedsThePotty I called you rude because of the way you were speaking to the OP. Your comment was very snide.
You have an opinion which you are entitled to but there are many nice and kind ways to express your views without the need to make the OP feel bad.

And you singled me out when many other posters said exactly the same thing long before I did?

Yet you preach about "kindness"😂

@ElmoNeedsThePotty I do apologise if you feel I have singled you out. This was not the case. I just felt your comment was very underhand and snidy towards the OP.