To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

There is absolutely, definitely a power trip element in it. Have you seen the clip of the c**t who climbed on top of a tube at 6am at Canning Town tube station? absolutely revelling in his power to stop a load of predominantly Black, working class workers from getting to their jobs. He got what he was coming to him, but was let off relatively lightly. Sooner or later, they will fuck over the wrong people at the wrong time.

This is my opinion only
politicians. Don’t care - if they did why are they flying to Egypt on private planes?

ceo of international corporations don’t care - they ( personally) have the money and connections to get underground or wherever it is to escape.
big business is all about the money

these are the people who can and should make a difference ( they’re about 40 years too late I reckon- I suspect it’s all too late now anyway)

stopping traffic on the m25 / gluing yourself to a train/ being a general nuisance etc does nothing but put the public / media firmly against you

but you do what you think is right

I don't understand why you think Uk fossil fuels are high up on the list of polluters. It is not. Even if the UK agree to the demands it won't actually make much difference.

You would be better off glueing yourself to the Brazilian embassy to protest at the rate they are destroying the rainforest. Or China for their part in it. Or the American embassy as they are one of the worst polluters & have essentially denied it is happening (a country where a surprisingly large majority of the population think the planet is flat).

99% of the people on this thread are doing fuck all about climate change, whether they anti or pro JSO (and no a bamboo toothbrush isn't going to have an impact). But hey guess what there are over 150,000 sports clubs in the UK, 10s of thousands of primary schools, 10s of thousands of Scout halls etc etc. Whether you're climbing a gantry or not blaming government and big businesses is just lazy.

You've spent more time in this thread copy and pasting "hatey" comments than suggesting how the climate crisis could actually be fixed. You're an attention seeker, not an activist.

@CatJumperTwat Maybe if I were a sadist. The attention isnt exactly pleasant, but sometimes I think it migh be worth getting out of the cosy tofu-eating, arm-pit-hair plaiting, woke, narcissist, middle-class activist bubble?

Did you mean masochist? That didn't really work, did it?

By taking part in stupid stunts besides other narcissistic middle-class "activists"?

@BloodAndFire - correct. The one you said

The attention isnt exactly pleasant, but sometimes I think it migh be worth getting out of the cosy tofu-eating, arm-pit-hair plaiting, woke, narcissist, middle-class activist bubble?

Slightly confused now. Is this the bubble you're in or the one you think we haterzzzz are in? because I sure as hell don't recognise myself in that description.

The attention isnt exactly pleasant

That genuinely surprises me, considering the pumped up smirks on the faces of many who get carted away from "demonstrations". Of course I realise these don't represent them all, but the obvious drive to have a mindless, "look at meeee" moment to post on SM doesn't exactly help their cause

What a strange thing to say. I would think, without a doubt, that the majority of the protesters fit that profile rather than the average MNer. But that advice could certainly be directed to the protester twats.

Nothing on it's own will "move the needle". Sustained collective action is required from all sections of society, not just the bits that mean you don't have to change. Simply passing the buck to those we see as "bigger" than us will not help the situation.

Tbh big businesses aren't really that much of an issue, they're taking things far more seriously than governments and the public.

The money people at the very top are taking climate change very seriously and have started taking net zero / sustainability into their lending decisions. The Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero, for example, has around $140 trillion under their members control, none of which will be mobilised to companies that can't evidence they are working towards a net zero goal. The net zero asset managers initiative has a further $66 trillion under their control and there are several other initiatives in place with the same goal.

Most large corporations are doing far more to reduce the emissions of their operations than any government or public population. Something like over 4000 large companies are either committed to or have verified science-based targets, which align with the Paris agreement's 1.5 degree scenario. No country can claim the same.

Trying to pass the buck to businesses doesn't wash now. Similarly, governments can take action but are limited in what they can do by the public, and will only implement measures that they are sure won't cost them an election, or inspire a revolution for those countries who do not follow a democratic process.

So really the onus is now on the people to make an effort to change and every little action that "won't move the needle" on it's own will add up if enough people participate.

Just look at your dismissive village hall commetn. There's something like 10,000 village halls in England alone, and based on average consumption data they contribute around 57000 tonnes of CO2e a year, just from energy use. Putting insulation into every single one would not only help the climate but would reduce demand for energy and running costs for those halls.

So while you might laugh at these little actions they do add up and they also provide more than "just" environmental benefits.

Just look at your dismissive village hall commetn. There's something like 10,000 village halls in England alone, and based on average consumption data they contribute around 57000 tonnes of CO2e a year, just from energy use. Putting insulation into every single one would not only help the climate but would reduce demand for energy and running costs for those halls.

Realistically what will happen is that they will be forced to close with no replacement due to lack of funding.

I didn't realise climate change was the fault of village halls. Why aren't protestors targeting them? are they afraid of the militant WI brigade?

Yes without a doubt they would be forced to close. Which would be even worse for actual people.

And if what is required is for people to take individual responsibility, then behaviour like stopping people getting to work isn't going to gain much sympathy for the cause.

The planet won't die. People might. Im not sure I really care that much anymore anyway.

The French legislation is pretty limited in scope anyway. It doesn't apply to short haul international flights, no matter what rail alternatives exist, and I don't believe that it applies to connecting flights either. The original plan was to ban flights where a rail alternative of less than 4hrs existed, but this got watered down to 2.5hrs.

The current thing preventing modal shift from air to rail is a lack of capacity. Eurotunnel, LGV Nord and (when it was eventually built) HS1 decimated the air travel market between London and Paris/Brussels. HS2 will achieve the same between London and Manchester/Edinburgh/Glasgow. This is one of the big infrastructure projects that climate campaigners should be supporting rather than sitting in shanty towns to "save" an "ancient" alder tree that far from being 400 years old only has an expected lifespan of 60. hs2.green/

I'd look at an outright ban on flights where rail alternatives of less than 4hrs exist, no matter what borders are crossed or if it's a connecting flight. That would mean no flights from London to Paris/Brussels/Manchester from day one. Amsterdam is only 4hr8 from St Pancras so if the dwell time in Brussels could be reduced then it would come under the threshold. On completion of HS2 London to Edinburgh/Glasgow would easily be short enough, plus (if we're counting connecting services) Birmingham/Manchester to Paris/Brussels. Manchester to Southampton is 4h15 currently, but a link between HS2 at Birmingham Interchange with the existing line to Reading could knock 30m or more from that.

What to do in the meantime before these infrastructure projects are complete? Time to start rationing flights. Much fairer than taxes (which would be pocket money to the wealthiest but exclude the poor from that one once-in-a-lifetime flight). You get one short-haul flight per year, for long-haul flights you will have to save up. If you need more (perhaps you need to fly for work) then you/your employer will have to buy a non-flier's allocation. I wonder what reserve price I could set for mine...

I’ve always been intrigued why so many climate protestors have such enormous carbon footprints. I’ve seen a few examples like this protestor who has done far more international travel than me or, to be frank, most people I know.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11416705/Indigo-Rumbelow-Globe-trotting-farmers-daughter-lectures-public-saving-planet.html

Any thoughts @medicellen ?

OP, if you must protest, please target the actual polluters. If you spend your time sabotaging the superyachts or private jets of oligarchs and celebrities, you'll hear no complaints from me. Roman Abramovich's yacht emits more CO2e in six hours than my lifestyle does in an entire year.

Likewise, I've little objection to airports being blockaded. For god's sake though, keep away from disrupting public transport. A couple of years ago there were some XR types running about the track at Manchester Airport railway station during the rush hour. For those not familiar with the services in/out of Manchester, by disrupting the airport station you're not just affecting fliers but you completely screw up trains all across the North of England (and Wales, and a couple into Scotland too) because they use the Airport to turn back rather than blocking Piccadilly.

Likewise, I've little objection to airports being blockaded. For god's sake though, keep away from disrupting public transport

Aren't airports public transport? as for sabotaging private jets - are you really trying to kill someone?

@LemonAndLimeTree my view is that everyone needs to try and cut their own carbon footprint. Perhaps paradoxically, the more wealthy potentially have more resources to do so eg electric car/bikes, reducing journeys by working flexibly at home, sorting out renewable energy at home. There are many people on low incomes who are simply not in a position to stop using their car/insulate their house etc.

My concern with naming and shaming people for their current (or historical) carbon use is that it can prevent people from taking action because they are afraid of being called a hypocrite. Ive seen bile directed at people who have had children, who then also protest about climate change, as it is seen as a form of hypocrisy. Essentially, unless you live off grid, in a cave, someone will call you a hypocrite, but its not a reason to stop trying to improve things

@LemonAndLimeTree my view is that everyone needs to try and cut their own carbon footprint. Perhaps paradoxically, the more wealthy potentially have more resources to do so eg electric car/bikes, reducing journeys by working flexibly at home, sorting out renewable energy at home. There are many people on low incomes who are simply not in a position to stop using their car/insulate their house etc.

But the carbon footprint I am referring to is not anything like getting to work or heating your home. International holidays are in no way essential.

I tend to take more notice of what people do than what they say. If people are demonstrating about and lecturing others about protecting the environment but then living a high carbon footprint lifestyle themselves, I am very suspicious of their motives and how genuinely they believe what they are saying. No-one needs to go on holiday to Nepal.

And I don’t think it’s reasonable to say unless you live off grid in a cave someone will call you a hypocrite. All you need to do is not take lots of foreign holidays, not have more than one home and not lead an excessively consumeristic lifestyle and I think most of the “hypocrite” criticism would stop. If you’re (general you) are not prepared to do that then all the campaigning seems a bit pointless as you are asking other people to make sacrifices you are not prepared to make.

Technically yes, they are public transport. A particularly damaging form though and one which isn't carrying many labourers and nurses to work.

As for sabotage, of course I'm not trying to kill someone (imagine the environmental destruction a crash would cause). No, just something that would be picked up on the pre-flight checks such that the aircraft is grounded. Gluing oneself to the wing ought to do it.

@LemonAndLimeTree "No-one needs to go on holiday to Nepal." Iagree, but if this is something that someone has done, or chooses to do, it doesnt change the urgency of the climate emergency and should not mean that their contribution to activism is invalid.

I have friends who are childless and jet off all over the place. Ultimately I have created far more carbon than they ever will by having a child