To be disgusted that nurses may be striking for a 17% pay rise!

[justonemire]

Of course nurses should receive a fair salary and of course they have as much right as anyone else to ask for a pay rise. However to ask for a pay rise that is 5% above the current 12% inflation rate is just ridiculous and never going to be approved.

The average nurses salary is £35.600 and this would equate to a pay rise of £6.150.

Yes nurses do a great job but so do a lot of other key workers in the public sector who have only received 2%

The government simply cannot accept the nurses pay demands because if they do everyone else would go on strike for a similar deal. Where would it end.

Therefore the outcome is that people will not receive the proper level of care we are all paying taxes for. If there are strikes then The NHS will be run as if it is Christmas Day. God help us and our loved ones then.

There will be resulting misdiagnosis and deaths and where will the fault lie? Yes you can blame the government, Putin for invading Ukraine and pushing up food and energy costs, etc but I think we will also all blame the nursing profession too for asking for a completely unrealistic 17% pay rise.

@KimmySchmitt I am talking about in absolute terms. If someone came in here saying they earned £35k and thought they were low paid, they would not get a lot of sympathy.
I am convinced that a lot of people who buy into the low paid narrative actually have little idea of how much a nurse actually earns

If that person then said they do 65 hours a week (10 to 15 are unpaid) does night shifts and gets verbal and physical abuse from patients and family on a daily basis to earn that £35k.......

it completely changes the script.

I have a lot more sympathy for the nurses pay rise requests than the junior doctors. We have an under supply of people applying to train as nurses, and an oversupply of people applying to medicine. We need to pay nurses more, and ensure those we accept to study medicine are committed to being doctors in the NHS.

I am convinced that a lot of people who buy into the low paid narrative actually have little idea of how much a nurse actually earns

I am convinced that a lot of people who buy into the low paid narrative actually understand what’s expected of nurses.

On the face of it attractive to make Dr's commit to the NHS but how?

the only way i could see is a financial incentive, perhaps pay off their loan if they do 10 years in NHS or similar?

If we trained the Dr's we actually needed in GP and NHS we wouldn't have an over supply of folk applying for Med School.

Tis funny listening to Schapps on min standards, when 500 people a week die waiting for AE on non strike weeks..... but he delivers it well, so Tories will swallow it....

But what an insult.

Whats laughable to me is the government trying to force legislation to ensure that on strike days a safe service is retained. There currently isn't a safe service.
I had to take a relative who collapsed with chest pain to a&e. We went by car because it was quicker. they then sat in a&e for 2 hours and still hadn't even been triaged.
Current guidelines for chest pain are ECG within 10 mins of arrival to identify potential cardiac issues and if clot-busting drugs are needed there is a 90-minute window after arrival in which to give them to save cardiac function before they become useless. Fortunately, it wasn't cardiac in the end, but they would have been screwed if it was.
While we were there a woman who was barely conscious on the seat behind us collapsed onto the floor, patients in the a&e had to attend to her for 10 minutes until help arrived. This is being repeated across a&e,s the whole country over. People are dying and will die because a safe service cannot be provided currently.

They are actual angels on earth. Even if they was asking for 50% higher they would deserve it. Better pay means better incentives for more to be trained up rather than trained on a pittance, burnt out, left to use food banks and spat out by the government and into private healthcare or worse lost to nursing all together meaning all the training was for nothing.

I suppose that the government could clear all student loans after a decade's service or something.

Meanwhile, it never ceases to amaze me how a man with so little between his ears manages to become a minister.

If I'm going to put my children's life in someone's hands, I want that person well paid, looked after, happy and secure, and bringing their a-game to the job.

It’s a shame there’s low life like you on here and I’m astonished you even know how to use a computer never mind even knowing how to turn one on what a waist of space , start insulting me and this is what you get in return
your pathetic

A huge percentage of consultants working privately ARE committed to the NHS. That have a 0.4, 0.6 or 0.8 contract with the NHS and the rest of the time they work privately.

While qualifying nurses work ridiculously hard on NHS wards for absolutely nothing - in fact they pay to do. Nursing degrees used to be free of charge with a bursary due to the fact that it’s difficult to obtain other work that fits around training. Graduate nurses do not immediately walk into to £35k roles and to be honest I don’t think that’s a great salary. I have an office based job with responsibility only for a small department, as opposed to actual lives and I earn significantly more. Yabvu.

Yes what the Government are now going to get is no overtime from their nurses. Genius.

Whoever said it's a lot of money, 35k is not a lot for the level of responsibility. If your post is predicated on jealousy of 35k, get in there and be a nurse, perhaps?

You OK, hun?

Turns out the Govt claim that all of Europe has min service standards is bollox.
As the min standards they do have must not interfere with the effectiveness of the strike and its set in law... in the UK version the min level will be set by the Govt.....

European countries also don't have draconian penalties.

So the govt has effectively outlawed strikes.

The students I know that have recently qualified have got through by moonlighting on the bank or agency mostly - some are still at home with parents, some have good partners who support them, it's a vocation and not everyone ends up with massive loans. It's a great fulfilling job, good pension, fantastic sick pay, job for life or see the world - recommend it.

@Notaflippinclue ah a vocation? yes that and clapping pays the bills doesn't it.

Agree you can see the world, many are doing exactly that.

Vast majority, like most students, take out student loans.. You are aware that tuition fees are £9.2k per year or does the "vocation" pay those too?

Un qualified students wont be going on bank to take on nursing shifts, they'll be like my DD, working in care or similar.

Just as well they have a good sick scheme, what would you expect when they are prone to flu and covid, stress and physical attack?

Yes - vocation- every student at Uni pays for tuition and end up with a loan, they do all sorts of jobs, nursing students usually work in some kind of care as health care assistants £10 ish an hour. Personally I've never had flu or been assaulted over the last 20 years on the front line, apart from the odd kick or punch from poorly old folk, never been off sick actually. I guess I'm just lucky - sometimes very exciting sometimes boring, still recommend it.

I don't think they will get anywhere near to that.

No one is an angel on earth. Enough with the schlocky sentimentality,it’s embarrassing
Nursing is a professional & responsibile job which should be better remunerated

I will not be working in the NHS. I do a speciality type of nursing. I will get paid 42k per year in private just as a staff nurse compared to the capped 33k for a band 5. If I go for senior nurse equivalent band 6 it will be 55k. I did not join the profession to be an angel , if I did I would still be a HCA/support worker I did the training to earn more money and that extra responsibility should warrant a better wage.

A very good post.
The government want more people to think like OP by feeding misinformation.

Nurses have been receiving below inflation payrise for 10+ years. Most nurses do not earn £36k. They work very long hours.

Their official shift is 12hr when in reality, it is more like 14hr. They stay behind to finish the work. The government is exploiting their kindness. Nurses don't just clock off and leave patients with open wound. They put in the extra hours.
Many nursing roles unfilled in the country. They are currently relying on less qualified healthcare assistants. They cannot replace qualified nurses.

The NHS is deliberately underfunded by the government. It is one of the cheapest and best healthcare system in the world.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29
of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).
The US spend way more, private healthcare do not cut the waiting list and it certainly does not improve care when the American maternal mortality rate is one of highest among developed country.

www.nhsemployers.org/articles/annual-pay-scales-202122
If you take the extra hours into account, many junior nurses are getting less than minimum wage.

A receptionist in London can easily get £26k+ doing 9-5 with no qualifications. Met a qualified nurse working as a receptionist in the City.

www.bbc.com/news/health-36561619
In the past, nurses had their training paid for and received a bursary. Now they get paid below minimum wage, have high student loan and work unreasonable hours. No wonder there is a shortage in nursing.
Who in their right mind would take up nursing?

There is also a literal haemorrhaging of junior doctors. They're leaving the NHS rather than chosing to specialise either as GPs or consultants. It's irrelevent what someone (who I'm assuming has zero first hand experience of working as a doctor or nurse entails) thinks. They clearly don't think the job is worth it as they're leaving en masse. The only real evaluation of the value of any job comes from the people doing it. If nobody wants to do it you have to make working conditions/pay better. You can slag people off/expect them to be martyrs/pit them off against each other til you're blue in the face but your only real long term solution is to make the job appealing enough to retain staff. If you are a doctor or a nurse please remember this and f%*k what the people who aren't even living the job think!

To be Honest all emergency service need a 20% pay rise to put their wages back where they used to be and make their jobs attractive - you want skilled, motivated people in these professions you have to pay more than minimum wage

Yabu. Their wages have been falling in real terms for years! They badly need to be brought up to date. We have a crisis in the UK with nursing shortages because the pay is not good enough.