To be disgusted that nurses may be striking for a 17% pay rise!

[justonemire]

Of course nurses should receive a fair salary and of course they have as much right as anyone else to ask for a pay rise. However to ask for a pay rise that is 5% above the current 12% inflation rate is just ridiculous and never going to be approved.

The average nurses salary is £35.600 and this would equate to a pay rise of £6.150.

Yes nurses do a great job but so do a lot of other key workers in the public sector who have only received 2%

The government simply cannot accept the nurses pay demands because if they do everyone else would go on strike for a similar deal. Where would it end.

Therefore the outcome is that people will not receive the proper level of care we are all paying taxes for. If there are strikes then The NHS will be run as if it is Christmas Day. God help us and our loved ones then.

There will be resulting misdiagnosis and deaths and where will the fault lie? Yes you can blame the government, Putin for invading Ukraine and pushing up food and energy costs, etc but I think we will also all blame the nursing profession too for asking for a completely unrealistic 17% pay rise.

@MarleneH

Why do you think other NHS staff were excluded from NHS Agenda for Change pay rises?

@Cornishclio - if the govt treated nurses better, they wouldn’t be striking. If they don’t strike they will get nil above what the govt are offering.

I think we are in a spiral where the working conditions are poor (many will regularly work longer hours and turn up to shifts where the ward are understaffed) and poor wages for the job requirements, so many leave or go agency. More shifts are understaffed which makes the working conditions worse for everyone who stays. For new joiners, saying that a certain portion of student loan is payed off for each year worked may be helpful. They should also think about how to retain long serving experienced nurses (of all grades) - this may include jobs that are less physical or have shorter hours, but where they can use their experience to guide the younger staff.

@MarleneH

Sorry but Physio's have also been balloted for strike action, along with almost all the other AHPs you mentioned.

The number of nurses on 50k is vanishingly small & they'll be specialists/trainers and in management, maybe you don't think Nurses need any management or training?

However, as nurses make up such a small proportion of NHS staff (in your "expert" opinion) no one will really notice if they are on strike?

Tessabelle74
here are some interesting FACTS

Your facts are wrong/misleading;

[nurses] will immediately start paying back from that band 5 salary at a rate of 9% of their pay, so nearly £2700 a year straight back to the government the minute they get their pin

It's 9% of salary over the threshold -
You do not pay anything back if your income is under the threshold.

Plan 2 (after 2012) Example -
Your annual income is £28,800 and you are paid a regular monthly wage. This means that each month your income is £2,400 (£28,800 divided by 12). This is over the Plan 2 monthly threshold of £2,274.
Your income is £126 over the threshold (£2,400 minus £2,274). You will pay back £11 (9% of £126) each month.

www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay

Looking at the firefighters salary scale

That's the salary scale for the London Fire Brigade - Norfolk salaries here;

www.norfolk.gov.uk/jobs-training-and-volunteering/work-at-norfolk-county-council/vacancies/norfolk-fire-and-rescue-service/about-the-job

Nursing and Midwifery vacancies at Guy's Hospital London here;

www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/current-vacancies

@Clavinova

Fuck they are low, who would work in central london for 35k to 45k ? its peanuts, anyone seen housing costs there or season ticket costs if outside?

My friends DD works in recruitment, London and with bonus is on around the 60k mark, plus health and gym membership, Law degree but didn't like law.

I fail to see why it's acceptable that anyone paid by the public sector should qualify for UC. Even IF average salaries were £35k the sheer fact that qualifies for UC is a clear admission by the U.K. govt that it is not enough to support a family on.

I'd like to see a proper independent review done of the NHS. It pays vastly lower drug prices than other health services so it has some efficiencies. If we were to build it again on a fit for purpose basis then what would it look like, what would be changed and how many people would it take to run it.

walkingonsunshinekat
My friends DD works in recruitment, London and with bonus is on around the 60k mark, plus health and gym membership, Law degree but didn't like law.

In that case, I don't know why more teachers, nurses and barristers don't retrain in recruitment! Equally though, high street solicitors with a law degree can often earn less than nurses if you factor in nurses' overtime/enhanced pay for weekends.

Those high street solicitors could surely get additional work in hospitality to bring their pay up to that of nurse etc who is also working additional shifts/ot etc.

Stupid argument isn't it but what i ve come to expect from you.

As is your "well they could work in recruitment"
Do you Tories not realise that healthcare staff are leaving the NHS and they have a shortage of 45k nurses.

Perhaps you do but you, like the party you represent also don't care "The NHS is in my blood" says Sunak whilst booking a private GP appointment.

Those high street solicitors could surely get additional work in hospitality to bring their pay up to that of nurse etc who is also working additional shifts/ot etc.

Most solicitors would probably argue that they work enough overtime for free already.

Do you Tories not realise that healthcare staff are leaving the NHS and they have a shortage of 45k nurses

I still don't think they should have a 17% pay rise - I wouldn't blink at 5/6%. The 45K shortage includes short term sick leave, maternity leave, busy periods etc. and are mostly covered by agency/bank/overtime - hospital trusts wouldn't want to fill all the 'vacancies' otherwise they would be making nurses redundant every other week.

As would healthcare staff, recent survey on London based nurses show they work 6 days for every 5 days they are paid for.
In my local trust, weekend work is paid with a 30p per hour increase for the Sunday and then time off to compensate for the sat/sun worked, O/T is like hens teeth.

5 or 6%? with inflation running at 11% plus is an effective pay cut and would not stem the numbers leaving.

However, i would be more creative, for example - so a 8 to 10% rise, free car parking, reductions in loan repayments, reduced tuition fees, increase the 5k per year payment for students, increased employer pension contribution, more leave.

I agree on the 45k shortfall but it still leaves an awful lot of agency nurses/unfilled posts and doesn't include OT's Radiographers Physio's Paramedics.

@Clavinova show me where the firefighters are paying back monies for their training, bet you can't. Even in Norfolk they're being PAID to train and will owe nothing when they are competent grade.
Many NHS staff ARE leaving to retrain, why put yourself through the stress of nursing when you could earn just as much in Aldi?
Do you sell private health insurance by any chance?

Nursing deserve every half cent they get and some. Nurses are done with being abused and exploited, which has being going on for years.

Those not supporting the nurses strike, don't want or support the nhs. You will rue the day you supported the dismantling of the nhs.

Tessabelle74
show me where the firefighters are paying back monies for their training, bet you can't

Show me where a newly qualified nurse on £27,000 has to pay £2,700 a year on their student loan (your post).

Many NHS staff ARE leaving to retrain, why put yourself through the stress of nursing when you could earn just as much in Aldi?

How much is the average salary in Aldi?

Do you sell private health insurance by any chance?

No!
You don't administer medicine do you? I wouldn't want you to calculate mine.

show me where the firefighters are paying back monies for their training, bet you can't. Even in Norfolk they're being PAID to train

It doesn't sound much fun to me -

^The working environment can be challenging and work often takes place in dangerous and unpleasant conditions: in heat and cold, at heights, in enclosed spaces, in smoke-filled buildings, in water, and in all kinds of weather conditions
You need to be physically fit. It’s a physical role and firefighters work with heavy equipment.^

Many NHS staff ARE leaving to retrain, why put yourself through the stress of nursing when you could earn just as much in Aldi?

How much is the average salary in Aldi?

Aldi Graduate (as thats what nurses/ahp's are) program starting salary is around 30k, 44k if you get on the manager scheme.... rising to £81k after 5 years..... and very well deserved too, its a competitive role. ... but is it more stressful or responsible than say an AE nurse, a stroke rehab OT, an ICU nurse ?
Oh and Aldi graduates also get healthcare and a company car.

So what do YOU think a nurse/AHP should earn as a basic starting wage?

It doesn't sound much fun to me -

^The working environment can be challenging and work often takes place in dangerous and unpleasant conditions: in heat and cold, at heights, in enclosed spaces, in smoke-filled buildings, in water, and in all kinds of weather conditions
You need to be physically fit. It’s a physical role and firefighters work with heavy equipment.^

I can assure you @Clavinova , working in A&E and ICU at the peak of the pandemic was not a barrel of laughs either.

Oh DO go forth and multiply

I wish I got 35k!!!

night duty band 5 staff nurse here and my pay is between 1600 and 1800 per month

3 nights 1 week then 4 nights the next and so on!

Well happenstance I am in A&E today and it is some years since I've needed to be here.

Fantastic looking hospital. But the staff nurses look exhausted and harried, with patients bursting into treatment rooms and signs indicating delays and staff shortages everywhere.

Awful. The staff who are here are really trying. I have never seen so many people seeking care.

Yes they should be paid better, or there will have to be some very tough decisions about what treatment is given on the NHS and to who.

@DifficultGirl I'm not going to roast you but, at a basic level, the bigger NHS problems cannot be fixed without adequate staffing. Nurses (and other AfC staff) have made it clear that this isn't all about money. It's about getting working conditions back to a reasonable level and improving patient safety. The only way to do this is to encourage staff to work there. Increased pay and conditions are the only ways to improve recruitment and retention. You can have all the fancy drugs and equipment in the world, but without staff to administer and use them it's useless.

I am NHS staff and I'm also taxed a lot (in Scotland so our higher tax bracket is even lower than rUK). We're not exempt from tax, and we're not exempt from having to use the health service. Unfortunately we're also more aware than most of how dangerous and unfit for purpose it is.

Make the connection between a poorly staffed nhs due to poor pay and terrible working conditions, and poor care. There is your answer. There is a government policy of dismantling the nhs and this is what is happening, so if you want to get rid of the nhs support the government and don't support the nurses getting a payrise. There is no doubt it needs an overhaul but the tories are undermining it at every turn.

This hospital is first class with great equipment. But few staff and far too many patients.

They need to pay the people at the coal face better. I feel sorry for the nurses here, they have angry and impatient patients asking them questions all the time.

Mostly it seems to be about appointments and access to treatment which looks like nothing to do with actual delivery of medical treatment