To be livid that year 11 DS thinks 4-5 hours/week homework/revision is enough for GCSEs?

[Hotdaisies22]

DS in year 11. Bright boy but has always been poor at doing homework at home despite being well set up for it at home (quiet desk space etc). Does his homework at homework club after school -Mon - Thurs max 5 hrs week (thats only time homework club room is available at his school). We're having conversations that he now needs to up his game these next few months before GCSEs and start studying /revising at home extra time. Getting massive push back and causing a lot of friction. He thinks what he does is enough and no intention of doing more "at the end of a tiring school day" (he only has a 20 min journey to school). What are other year 11s doing? (I'm trying to have conversation with his school on this but so far they've been rubbish - no reply!)

This is really bad advice. The more you push the less he will do. Leave him to it you can not force hiM and you will just be at loggerheads

If he's actually DOING an hour in a homework club environment then chances are he's doing significantly more than one faffing about in their bedroom.

Teachers will of course tell you it is not enough particularly when they can't get students focusing in class.

But if you push them they resent you and more and more of them are ending up needing support from cahms, medical intervention etc. It's all a mess. Reducing coursework putting it all onto exams has literally ruined the chances for some.

‘Structured activities from 8.00am to 10.00pm every day sounds like a bloody nightmare and a recipe for disaster. How do they find out anything about themselves in that set up? People need time to breathe.

Oxbridge don’t pick from public schools anymore and don’t look for ‘structured activities’

We have 4 dc between us. I’d say none of the eldest 3 put all their effort into GCSE nor A level, but they had to have a life too. All are employed in competitive high profile jobs.

DD has just started 6 th form. I’ll be allowing her to have a life too.

10 hours every weekend sounds like a lot in my opinion.

I agree, but I think the OP's DS's 1 hour every school day to include homework and revision sounds like the other end of the scale!

Well it's 4 to 5 hours more than I did and I didn't fail anything. Even drama for which I don't think I handed in a single piece of coursework.

@blebbleb

The 10 hours every weekend is tough, but DS manages it by getting up early so he’s finished working by 12.30pm and has the rest of the day to himself.

It may be controversial, but I actually think year 11 should be hard. DC who get top grades should have to work hard and make sacrifices for them. In my view, that is part of the challenge and reward of these grades.

There is nothing more ridiculous than the argument of working excessive hours now because 'work won't be 9-5' as a poster upthread said. If we tell our kids their future will be unrelenting, stressful and exhausting so their life now should be unrelenting, stressful and exhausting to prepare them for it then how on earth are we incentivising them?

We shouldn't fetishise presenteeism, long hours and pointless busy-work in the workplace or in school years. Year 11s need smart study skills; not measured in hours but in usefulness. Downtime is vital for knowledge consolidation, retention and deeper thinking skills as well as for mental health. I send my children to private school but in my mind the investment is in the nurturing approach of our chosen school and the small class sizes - I'd be horrified if they were putting pressure on students to work 50hr + weeks. The person who said there is nothing worse than a child not achieving their grades is tragically blinkered and all the academic success in the world can't compensate for such a pitiful (and dangerous) world view. There are countless worse options, some of them explained in the thread.

Ime many teenagers (particularly boys) are not able to see the link between hard work in year 11 and long-term opportunities. I would therefore be coming down hard on him and removing all privileges until he is doing 2.5 hours of revision on school nights (ideally 3) and 4 hours a day at weekends.

IME as a secondary teacher who has taught millions of Year 11boys, they suddenly wake up after Christmas and really turn it round. The majority l taught were like this but still came out with a clutch of good GCSE.

So l disagree with your statement based on teaching about 1500 y11 boys over the years.

A lot of what they do after Xmas will be revision in school anyway so I would just leave them to it. They have to learn to manage things themselves,
babying them does them no favours.

If they are bright GCSEs aren't difficult,
DS1 didn't do loads outside of school but did what he needed to nearer the exams.
His school didn't finish till 2 weeks before exams were over so he did plenty of revision in the school day. He got really good grades.

There are some MN parents who certainly do not reflect any parents I have come across in RL, my DCs were at a private school and most were definitely not as controlling/helicopter as many on here!

Didn't even notice but 😂

This person seems to be equating quantity with quality

And the more I've tutored, then recently studied for a job- related qualification, the more i realised I didn't know how to revise best for me. So I figured that out at the age of 39 when trying to study whilst also working and having a young child. Sleep was far more valuable to me (and I always look at my tutees and if they look haggard, tell them sleep is more important)

@Harrysmummy246

Ime the ‘quality over quantity’ cliche is often used to justify laziness. 1 hour a day won’t cut it regardless of how ‘high quality’ it is.

My view is that there needs to be a combination of both quality and quantity.

I attended a very competitive American private school. At 15/16, 2.5-3 hours of homework per night and 4-5 hours over the weekend . My school explicitly taught study skills. If you want top results, you must work hard. Young people do need one full weekend day off to relax, help in the houdse, see friends, and so on.

I agree. Getting home from work to find that my 16 yr old son has taken an overdose was much worse. Luckily after some time in hospital he was ok, but the amount of revision he did, didn't seem too important after that.

Willful misunderstanding there @PalmTrees7
I didn't even say one hour a day was enough, you've put those words in my mouth.

But i'd take 1 hour quality (i.e. probably broken up into two chunks) of 3 hours enforced time which might just be filled for the sake of filling it. For example, I know that one hour supported learning with a tutor would probably trump 3 hours floundering if unsure. Especially if that tutor also ensures the student is finding out what revision techniques work for them. And if they're actually any good, they'll be advising their students to be balanced and not burn out.

Might be why my last student, predicted 5-6 in maths came out with a 7.....

I sincerely hope you don't go on at your son about the sacrifices you have made for his education, there's nothing worse.

Leave him alone, he may surprise you.

Wow, my DD definitely did less than that and came away with a decent set of grades. Sure she could have done even better with three hours work a night but it wasn't worth ruining our relationship by hassling her more about it.

Work smarter, not harder is definitely a thing. My two both had mocks in November, which they revised for but not exhaustively. They got useful feedback on weak points to be worked on, which they duly did. They then had more mocks in February, which they revised much harder for. That was interesting because they both did worse in those. From Easter onwards they were doing 2-3 hours every week night and 3-4 on weekends, with planned days off. They both far exceeded their November mocks grades because their study was planned, targeted and supported by excellent revision classes at school. And they still got to have a life. There's a balance to be had here, there's a need to acknowledge that one size absolutely does not fit all and that excessive pressure is harmful.

No delusion here at all. My sons on track for high 9s and 1 low 8 for a subject he doesnt like.

Why would I push him to do 22 hours plus revision a week as someone on here is doing when he is already getting the highest he can get? I appreciate the may be the exception.but with his peers, they are all looking at 7s and 8s too and they don't seem to revise either.

Our school are excellent at getting the children to achieve high results and they are exceptional at supporting children who need it to get those grades without burn out too.

It was the OP who made the choice to pay for private education. It just reaffirms the obvious that if a child wants to learn they will and putting them in private education doesn't mean they will all of a sudden start putting the effort in.

If schools aren't satisfied that a full school day, plus an hours homework a night and then 17 hours a week extra work on top of that is not enough them I would be questioning the school not my childs ability

How absolutely awful. I hope he's ok now? And you too.

THank you @pointythings for showing the middle ground. Success is more than just grades, it's coming out a whole human being at the other end.

@Harrysmummy246 I feel very strongly about this. DD2 is now at uni, 2nd year in a STEM subject. Currently sitting at the high end of a 2:1. Am I pushing for her to get a First? Hell, no. Her health has deteriorated to such an extent that she now needs a wheelchair. She has PTSD and anxiety. She doesn't have a diagnosis for her physical symptoms (NHS in a state) but does now have an autism diagnosis. And she's still living independently, achieving and having a life. I want her to enjoy life now, because we don't know what her future is going to hold.

@pointythings I do too, having supported students in various guises, seen my sister struggle with university pressure (a student in her group did take their own life) and only learnt for myself, how to revise, in my late 30s. I've seen so many school refusing anxious students, in a school known for good results etc.

Just hope to strike the balance later on with DS (he's only 5 now)

Breathing can be done perfectly well alongside other activities.

They find out far more about themselves by challenging themselves, overcoming barriers and trying new things. Four hours dossing on a sofa or playing CoD doesn’t really offer the same opportunities, does it?

Oxbridge pick a disproportionate number of children from independent schools still. It’s improving but you still need very high grades regardless of your school. Oxbridge may not be everyone’s choice but without those grades, it’s not going to be a choice, is it?

A life can be lived in many ways. Getting drunk on cider or alcopops in the local park or ‘just chilling’ doesn’t strike me as ‘living life to the full’.

Structured doesn’t mean no time for chosen activities or continual Higher level maths. It means a routine that includes academic, social, physical, community service and artistic activities too. It means avoiding doing absolutely nothing for the majority of their waking hours.

Who said anything about forcing them? Failing a GCSE can ruin lives for a good few years. Educate them so they can make choices as adults, at eighteen. That starts long before GCSEs.