Do you agree with the nurses strike?

[borderterrierr]

Guardian reporting that the rcn strike has resulted in a yes vote and we'll be striking before Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/nurses-across-uk-vote-to-strike-in-first-ever-national-action?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Patient's emergency care will be protected but it's a strike vote

Do you actually know the purpose of dols? Not sure you do🙄

100% I'm shocked it's taken so long!

🤣🤣🤣🙄....there's always a 'joker'
I earn 47k ( pro rata) as a nurse and its not sufficient for the responsibility I carry

Same salary for attending high risk deliveries, reusicitating tiny babies, incubating, prescribing tiny drug doses, inserting central lines into tiny veins....

My OH gets paid more for WFH.

I think the good life with good pensions in the NHS have truly gone... I'm so done as are so many other NHS workers. We give up things in our lives to save others and get nothing back.

I was agreeing with you BTW that the salary isn't worth senior responsibilities. Re-read my post and I was too busy ranting so didn't want you to think I was disagreeing with you! 🙂

I'm top of band 6. My 20year old son brings home just £200 a month less than me as a tech apprentice.
Of course tech is important but how can we expect young people to come into health professions, when the conditions are awful and the pay is so ridiculously low.

But what sort of pension does he have? Betting it’s next to nothing compared the the generous NHS pension you have, which includes early retirement in the event of disability or ill health. Such benefits are part of your total compensation, you cannot accurately and fully compare jobs on the basis of take home pay or even annual salary alone.

Yes and I’m normally anti strike as I think you accept the pay and conditions when you start a job but in this case nurses pay does not reflect the level of responsibility and skill the role involves.
I am a 3rd year student nurse and the new proficiencies I must achieve to qualify are currently being taught to qualified nurses looking to progress to band 7. NQNs from 2023 will be expected to practice at a band 7 level for the bottom of band 5 pay. This doesn’t even take into consideration current levels of patient safety/staffing levels which is endemic on the wards at the moment. A single oversight will cost you your pin. Staff shortage is not a defence when you’re up against a fit to practice panel.
PP’s argument regarding pensions is also void given how many nurses are having to cancel pension contributions just to try and make bills at the end of the month. They changed the pension nearly 20 years ago so it’s not nearly as good as it has been in the past.

NQNs from 2023 will be expected to practice at a band 7 level for the bottom of band 5 pay

Will they?

NHS pensions are no longer particularly generous. The scheme has just changed again to reduce its generosity further.

Some of the new proffs are ridiculous. I didnt come across ward level nurses who could do them with me and had to arrange spokes with surgical nurse practitioners and the ITU outreach nurses to get them signed off.

@Topgub I think "practice at band 7" is a bit of an exaggeration, but some are definitely not standard ward-based care proffs and are much more specialised.

@lolalouisa84

I'm aware 3rd year students are now expected to complete venepuncture and cannulstion, and be IV drug trained.

But that is not practicing at the level of a band 7.

I’m a nurse and voted yes to striking. I have a BSc, an MSc and a prescribing qualification. I’ve worked as a nurse for 20 years. I lead a service and very much do the same job as the consultants within my specialty. I absolutely love my job but I’m exhausted. I have to work extra shifts whenever I can to have enough money to pay my bills. I rarely have a lunch break, never leave work on time and frequently have to do work at home once I’ve got my children to bed. I do all the extra unpaid hours because I care about my patients but there has to be a point where we say enough is enough and make a stand.

Interpret ECGs accurately and Identifying differing chest sounds via auscultation are the two off the top of my head I couldn't do on any placement and had to spoke with specialists to get signed off. Im sure there were more though

@lolalouisa84

Still not practicing at the level of a band 7 though

No i agree, bit of an exaggeration, but a nightmare to get signed off as a student when no ward level nurses (in my placement areas) could do those skills so a 100+ students need the spokes and exposure to actually do them to get it signed off

@lolalouisa84

Did your placement not have a cardiology or respiratory ward?

No icu? Or ED?

I know loads of ward based nurses with those skills. Band 5s too. Lol

My placements were not cardiology resp or ITU (my 3rd year placements were awful in all honesty lol), but i went with the ITU outreach nurses for 2 shifts for ECG interpretation, then my chest ausc I did with the surgical nurse practitioners whilst on a surgical day case placement and managed to chat them into letting me go as I knew some from my previous HCA role in surgical special care.

I’ll admit it is an exaggeration as band 7s also practice at a level with experience that can not be taught at uni, but the clinical skills the new band 5’s will be equipped with are at that level. Advanced assessments in cardio, respiratory, neuro and gastro, prescribing and IV drug administration were previously expected to be learnt as you progressed your career as a previous placement supervisor explained to me when she came across them in my pad, skills she was just learning whilst completing her msc.

I'm a pharmacist and we're paid under agenda for change like nursing staff. Totally agree with strike action. I completely understand that the money has to come from somewhere to pay off the huge debts the country has however the pay disparities between the public and private sector now are frankly huge, i massively disagree with Agenda For Change. I've worked 13 years for the NHS, spent 5 years training and done 2 masters degrees and a prescribing qualification to become a specialist within Intensive Care. The high Street pharmacies are paying newly qualified pharmacists 10,000 a year less than I earn as a starting salary excluding bonuses for this years graduates. Frankly that's a disgrace! No where else in the civilised world do we get paid such little to do what we do just because its for the NHS. I am frankly looking to get out now and move to industry. I love my job and took a lower salary initially than my peers working in the private sector because I knew I'd get a decent pension at the end of it. Now I contribute nearly 13% of my pay for it and its not final salary anymore. Frankly that does not make the extra unpaid hours, the phone calls at all hours and the weekends worth it for me. I'm very sad about it but I'm done.

The uni i attended was a "flagship" for the new curriculum and it can be tough to get them, I know some in my cohort struggled for so many, it was a massive talking point n our cohort chats as placements just weren't aware of the changes before we went in and showed them what was expected! Arranging as many spokes as you can whilst out on placement is definitely beneficial though, then they can liaise with your assessor and get you signed off. Theres defs more than the two I mentioned I struggled to get, but those two were definitely the hardest so stick out!

Good luck with your final year!

They are still generous. Earn 1/54th of salary per year that is then increased by CPI + 1.5% each year until you retire. No cap on how many years you can work and accrue. When it pays out, it is also inflation indexed to increase each year. Plus an ill health/disability early retirement provision.

One year working at £27k, gives you an initial £500/yr defined benefit pension income. After forty years of this being increased by CPI + 1.5%, if we use the 20yr CPI U.K. average of 2.05%, that’s 3.55% annual growth in value. If you retire after forty years work, your first year of work alone gives you a defined pension benefit of £2,018.25 income/ yr that will continue to grow whilst in retirement.

Even if you’re not the best nurse, you can quite easily build up a annual pension income of £80k/yr by working a normal forty year career. Now £80k in forty years will be worth only around £36k today. But still, £36k/yr in todays money worth of guaranteed pension income that increases each year with inflation while retired? That’s still generous and that’s assuming you never get promoted not once your entire career.

The thing you’ve failed to take into account @Discovereads is that NHS salaries don’t keep up with inflation. NHS staff have effectively had a pay cut over the last ten years. If that continues that pension doesn’t look very rosy.

No, I have actually. I’ve assumed this hypothetical nurse earns only £27k a year for 40yrs, never a promotion, never a pay raise. Which I know is so conservative it’s laughable but was to prove the point the pension is actually still generous.

It’s not the salary that gets increased with inflation + 1.5% in my example, it’s your pension entitlement for every year of work.