To think Rishi is right - the government cannot be everything to everyone?

[Cuppasoupmonster]

Don’t get me wrong, the Tory government hasn’t tried to be anything let alone everything.

But I think he was right when he said there’s too much reliance on the state to provide for each and every issue the public face.

We could free up a lot of funds by taxing big corporations properly, cracking down on non doms etc. But even then, I’m not convinced the socialist utopia of generous benefits, a five star NHS, cheap and available high quality public housing, instant mental health support etc that is often discussed on here could ever be financially viable.

AIBU?

Might as well dispose of the overpaid tosspots then and elect an Alderman for each district like the good old days.

I agree the Government can't be everything to everyone. But it should be there to step in and protect the most vulnerable - people who lose their job through no fault of their own, people who are medically unable to work and anyone who is working full-time who still can't afford a basic standard of living. Basically, I think everyone has a responsibility to improve their circumstances as best as they can, but if they hit the limit of what is reasonable for them and they still can't afford a basic lifestyle, the Government needs to subsidise them. It's about a basic level of respect for other humans.

I don't think everyone should be able to buy a home, but I think everyone who contributes to society should have a roof over their heads and be able to afford to eat and heat without thinking about it. I also think free basic healthcare (dentistry and medical care) should be easily accessible.

I don't think I'm asking a lot, and I don't think the Government is delivering even that.

The state cannot do anything but there is a lot more it could do. It is a bit of a cop out when he says that but really means: the healthcare system, education, the justice system, affordable housing are all broken and we cannot ensure people will be fed and warm.

I think OP might have a point if we didn’t have governments that consistently and repeatedly waste our taxes on poor service from private companies. As for meeting every need, MPs don’t go short of much do they. In my 70+ years I have never before experienced such incompetence.

Yup

He's channeling Maggie T!

I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations.

I agree with you. Sadly there is no magic money tree and the number simply cannot add up just now.

But my point is even if the very wealthy did pay a much higher rate of tax, I’m not convinced it would be enough for everything posters on here seem to expect.

How's about we start taxing them properly and put your theory to the test?

You are setting up a strawman. No one is expecting utopia. A functioning and competent government who can deliver on at least some of their manifesto pledges would be a massive step up from what we have had.

He would be right. If we didn’t have the highest tax burden since the war right now.

This is the guy that badly mismanaged the economy by wasting public funds during Covid. And printed half a trillion pounds to pay for lockdown largesse. He’s stupid and incompetent. Hardly in a place to be lecturing.

Channeling Maggie?

If he had half the intellect and backbone that Maggie had, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

I think it is quite clear that there is when they want money for their backers!

No there really isn’t. Our debt burden and weak economy is there for all to see. The money has been well and truly spent. Makes you wonder where the sky high taxes go.

I think he's right in the sense that there are people who would like the state to do everything they imagine, and they can imagine a lot.

But it's also true in some other ways. I don't think the state is able to do a good job at certain things, no matter how much money it has. You can have a great welfare state, but it's impersonal, people are doing their job, it's never going to effectively replace having a close knit community or family nearby who can knock on your door or drive you to the shops when you have a broken foot or babysit in an emergency.

You could also make an argument around whether it is really a good thing for the state to do things that other types of citizen groups or individuals can do. There are communities that have historically become dependent upon a state body for some reason, and when that happens down several generations it doesn't create good healthy empowered individuals or communities.

People are either going to have to accept Nordic style taxes like 50 percent. Or face facts that things will have to be privatised.

@sst1234 look at the profits the energy companies are making - its in the billions, that is our money that we are paying that is pure profit. It needs to be stopped. The government need to step in in circumstances like this. Same with other huge companies not paying any tax etc.

Basically he wants more of you money for less responsibility. He wants to tax everyone more and more by stealth, yet the state cannot do everything, sorry anything.

To all those people saying they Tories bad, boo. This is not conservatism. Not even remotely. This is corrupt socialism dressed up with a few sound bites give the illusion of conservatism. These charlatans realized a long time ago there is no fun or personal gain in pursuing economic growth for the country, in looking after the public finances, in keeping taxes low. The real fun is in taking people’s money and throwing it around like confetti. And actually even if Rishi and co wanted to pursue conservative policies, they don’t possess the intellect or skill to do so.

Tut, those pesky people demanding they have access to housing, healthcare, reliable transport and education, where will it end? 🙄

I agree, a higher rate of tax still wouldn’t raise as much as many people think.

Who are these “very wealthy” people who apparently need to pay more tax? Most really wealthy people have several houses all over the world. They may not officially directly pay much in tax, but will employ many people in each country (housekeepers, cleaners, gardeners, chauffeurs etc) and spend a huge amount on services such as restaurants, designer clothing, hairdressers, beauty treatments, florists, hotels etc etc, but wouldn’t use the NHS, or state schooling for example, so are already paying in way more money than they take out. If you try to tax them on salary earnt and already taxed abroad, they’ll just leave.

I don't think covid policy was up to him.

But once the decision was made - and remember that "the science" was screaming all over that these were the only options, at least according to all the media - there was really no option other than rolling out financial support.

Why do you only think of the wealth individuals? What about about corporations?

There will be sectors out there making huge profits at the moment - you only know what’s reported in the media but plenty will be.

He rolled out financial support in such a way (via businesses, including furlough) which meant the scope for fraud was huge. Fake companies were set up in their thousands to claims loans etc.

Other countries did it differently. We locked down too late and it cost us dear.

And if I hear “it’s just the flu” one more time, I’ll scream.

Why does it need to be stopped? It’s business. Who says that you or anyone can also stop businesses from making profit. Do we live in North Korea?

Don’t give into lazy sound bites. The problem is not that BP is making profits legitimately. The problem is that our government has failed to be energy self sufficient. Failed to take the decision 10 years ago to build nuclear power. Just this week it was announced that sizewell C will likely be cancelled. Is that BP’s fault?

Unless you think there’s an infinite supply of money, then yes it matters if companies make huge profits because it takes money from
elsewhere

unless you believe in the magic money tree….

@sst1234 I think you missed the bit when I wrote that the government needs to step in.
Last time I checked I didn't live in North Korea but sounds like you know best.