To respect her wishes?

[ChildSalad]

DD is 12. Mild mannered, gentle and kind and very sociable. Her stepdad and I have a close open and honest relationship with her. Her father and I (three DC together) are separated six years. We are amicable although differing parenting styles, I don't interfere with his choices and respect he has the right to parent the way he sees fit. I don't always get the same respect back, and occasionally we argue over text, but generally very little conflict.

Increasingly over the last few years she has been saying she doesn't want to go to his to stay (one night in the week and alternate full weekends. He doesn't live in the same town as us but is fairly close). I've always gently encouraged her to go, I want to protect her relationship with him.

Recently she confided in us that she doesn't like the way he speaks to her. He treats her differently to her brothers. He doesn't allow her to see her friends, partly because he won't give her any independence and he also refuses to facilitate any social stuff for her (driving her places etc). He says things to her like: "you always cry and make everything worse" "I don't know why you bother coming if you don't want to spend time with me" (when she's asked to see her friends at the weekend - this phrase happens regularly). He also refuses to let her have her phone much so she feels very isolated from her friends.

She said to me "I've looked it up and the way he talks to me is manipulative."🥺

The problem is: she absolutely doesn't want him to know she doesn't want to go. She loves him and doesn't want to hurt his feelings. She has made me promise I won't talk to him, and my instinct is to respect that. Yesterday she was in floods of tears as I was driving her over, she put on a brave face and wiped her eyes smiling as she went in.

AIBU in respecting her, or should I intervene to protect her? Please help, my baby is hurting and I don't know what to do.

It’s up to her to tell him she’s not going if she’s made you promise not to.

He’s bullying her. Why do you make her go if she doesn’t want to? Is there a court order? You should not, imo, be protecting her relationship with him if the relationship is manipulative/bullying. She’s 12, of course she wants her phone and to see her friends, that’s the major concern of most 12 year olds.

It's only recently I've become aware of this manipulation. I've never forced her, by 'gentle encouragement' I meant just a bit of "come on you'll have a nice time" when she grumbled a bit which was always enough. I've told her she doesn't have to go but she doesn't want him to know she doesn't want to go. I'd happily fight her corner with him but she asks me not to and would rather go than upset him.

Absolutely I want to maintain her trust, it's just so hard when she's young and vulnerable and I want to protect her.

No idea why you’re being so nasty. I’m a ‘twat’? Because I think the mum has every right to stop her ex treating their daughter like that?

I'd tell her that this is a process that she's just working out. And that it's a lot of responsibility for someone her age. And that you're proud of her for being so mature.

When she chooses not to go you will help her tell her dad that she doesn't want to sleep over tonight / ever. That she still loves him but she's growing up and wants her independence.

(And all bunker down then)

Encourage her so she feels empowered to tell him herself she doesn't want to stay over. Would she prefer to meet him for dinner out or something? Slowly transition away from the staying over?

She loves him and doesn't want to hurt his feelings.
Children shouldn't be made to feel responsible for their parents feelings like this.

I think it would be worth trying to intervene, not to force her to stay with him, but to let him know he is pushing her away. He shouldn't treat her differently from her brothers, he shouldn't try to guilt trip her in spending time with him and he shouldn't make her feel bad about lifts. But IDK how much he listens to you.

Massive sympathy for your daughter, my eldest has similar issues with her deeply unpleasant dad too when she goes to stay, which is far less often now as she’s chosen to vote with her feet and simply not go. It took a while for her to get to this point- she didn’t want to tell him how she felt, partly because she didn’t want to hurt him and partly because she was scared of his reaction. I always said she had to tell her reasons to him herself, but I would always have her back and protect her. But there was no point just me telling him her reasons for not going because he would choose not to believe me, no matter how I worded it. And nothing would be solved.

Your ex is a dick btw.

Support her in telling her father how she feels. Rehearse a few ways of saying this. She's a strong girl and you must be very proud of her.

I am so SO proud of her, I've told her so. I also said I'd be proud of her if she chose to stand up for herself and prioritise her feelings.

I will talk some more with her. Having thought about it a bit more I actually think she might be a bit scared of his reaction.

I'm sorry you've had a similar experience.

And yes, he is a massive dick.

Are you able to have a sensible conversation with the ex? Would he be receptive to a chat about his behaviour? You don't need to tell him what your DD has said but you could mention that she's upset and unsettled after seeing him and ask what's going on when she's there.

I'd also support your DD. Tell her she doesn't need to go if she doesn't want to. Tell her she can ring you whenever she wants to come home. Tell her you will support her no matter what she decides.

This is a good idea thank you, I'll let her know she can come home anytime she wants

Although I'm not sure she'll be able to call me when she wants as he takes her phone from her

Could you discuss a plan with her like this: Say she tells you casually, anecdotally, some things he’s said/done, and you talk to him about those things and say you think he’s being maniupulative? And warn him that it’s likely to push her away?

I agree you shouldn’t do anything if she doesn’t want you to, but she confided in you about this so I get the feeling she’s looking for a solution, and would like your help with that

Have her write and text message to him if she can’t bear saying it to him face to face. Let your DD word it herself so you cannot be accused of influencing her.

It's not your job to protect her relationship with him. That's HIS job.
Don't damage your own relationship with her by forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do. Listen to her.
No way I'd have waved off my DD after she'd been crying in the car on the way to a visit. I'd of made an excuse and took her home where you could have a talk and come up with ideas of how to talk to Dad.

You could reduce the amount of visits, so maybe once a fortnight? She could have weekend hobbies and activities with friends, that are important for her emotional health. Being with Dad seems to be dragging her down. It's supposed to benefit them both, not just him. It doesn't have to be tug of war between you. She seems bright enough to speak up for herself. I wonder why she hasn't said anything to him yet. Maybe he finds the boys easier to relate to. Best of luck with everything.

How old are the brothers out of interest? If she is the baby of the family perhaps he doesn’t appreciate how mature she is and wants to have a social life and all that. Or he’s clinging on and wants his youngest to ‘stay young’

I think you need to explain to her that she is not responsible for his feelings. It’s really, really important that she learns this.

I think you need to sit down with her and work through her options.

She is now of an age where she gets to say no.

I hear you think I did the wrong thing, luckily I have tough skin but this is pretty unkind. You weren't there. I gave her the option of not going, she chose to go because she doesn't want to upset him.

She's actually the oldest.