To respect her wishes?

[ChildSalad]

DD is 12. Mild mannered, gentle and kind and very sociable. Her stepdad and I have a close open and honest relationship with her. Her father and I (three DC together) are separated six years. We are amicable although differing parenting styles, I don't interfere with his choices and respect he has the right to parent the way he sees fit. I don't always get the same respect back, and occasionally we argue over text, but generally very little conflict.

Increasingly over the last few years she has been saying she doesn't want to go to his to stay (one night in the week and alternate full weekends. He doesn't live in the same town as us but is fairly close). I've always gently encouraged her to go, I want to protect her relationship with him.

Recently she confided in us that she doesn't like the way he speaks to her. He treats her differently to her brothers. He doesn't allow her to see her friends, partly because he won't give her any independence and he also refuses to facilitate any social stuff for her (driving her places etc). He says things to her like: "you always cry and make everything worse" "I don't know why you bother coming if you don't want to spend time with me" (when she's asked to see her friends at the weekend - this phrase happens regularly). He also refuses to let her have her phone much so she feels very isolated from her friends.

She said to me "I've looked it up and the way he talks to me is manipulative."🥺

The problem is: she absolutely doesn't want him to know she doesn't want to go. She loves him and doesn't want to hurt his feelings. She has made me promise I won't talk to him, and my instinct is to respect that. Yesterday she was in floods of tears as I was driving her over, she put on a brave face and wiped her eyes smiling as she went in.

AIBU in respecting her, or should I intervene to protect her? Please help, my baby is hurting and I don't know what to do.

I've actually been trying to do this. We found an excuse to drop two of the weekday nights a fortnight. But making excuses isn't going to cut it long term

I would be focusing on helping her find a way to tell her dad how she feels OP. She shouldn't be prioritising his feelings over her own, both because it will damage her relationship with her dad, and because it's a really bad precedent to set for how she conducts her adult relationships later on.

Empowering her to tell him how she feels is the only way this will get properly resolved, hopefully because her dad will listen and change his behaviour but even less/no contact would be better than her being miserable every time she's there imo.

He is solely responsible for his relationship with DD though, don't forget that, and make sure DD doesn't either. Neither of you are responsible for his feelings and he is in control of his own parenting choices, so if those choices are driving DD away your only responsibility is to support her while she comes to terms with the fact that her dad is a bit shit.

Thank you. Yes I'll continue to emphasise this. This is good to remember

She’s old enough (Gillick competent) to make her own choices I would support that. She’s not a toddler any more.

OP stop encouraging her to go. You're setting her up to put others before her feelings.
Her Dad sounds awful stick up for her.

She's got a very high chance of ending up in an abusive relationship,as an adult.

Do what you need to do make excuses to him... she's not well... she's started periods ect.

Okay interesting. So do her brothers go and see their friends when they’re with him? Do they have phones?

If not, then same logic still stands. He is not wanting her to grow up. Wants his kids there and interested in spending time with him and not appreciating they will become more independent as they get older. He may or may not realise he is doing this.

You sound sensible to me! I think the challenge here is Dad sees the custody arrangement as how much time he will spend with her and is forgetting custody is about how much parenting time you get! Personally I’d encourage her to speak to him, maybe with you there. Of course it’s natural she’ll want to spend time with her friends at weekends as she approaches her teens. Both of you will see her less - she’s growing up bless her.

I'm not encouraging her any more. I hear this so strongly and it's what I'm worried about. Thank you for being blunt

Some men are more protective over girls, but perhaps your daughter might approach it as wanting equality with her brothers?

Re the phone. If you try to reach her while she's there and can't, you'll find out that she has her phone taken off her and you can raise it without breaking her confidence.

Absolutely put a stop to him removing her phone, she needs to be able to call you whenever she wants without having to ask permission or explain why.

Thank you this is solid advice.

You're spot on. He's always been 'fun dad'. Wants to best bits of being daddy but without the sacrifice and responsibility that comes with it. And he compensates by being very strict.

no she doesn’t. You don’t have a crystal ball either. What a rude and inconsiderate thing to say to her mother.
she‘s 12 and working out how to react and deal with other’s expectations and knows something is wrong about what he does/how it makes her feel, and is seeking support from her attentive mother. None of this indicates abusive relationship in the future.

Lemoo makes a good point. You could couch it under the pretext of trying to get hold of DD to discuss which sanitary products she was after but couldn't contact her...where was her phone?

Obviously you need to run this past DD but it could bring up her not having her phone in a non accussory way. Yes I know you shouldn't have to do this but if it helps DD...

Another thought. How young are the boys and do they do boyish stuff, eg go to park to play football? You could say she's more grownup than the boys now, or more into non boy things, or prefers reading to sport? What do they actually do on the weekend? Is he focusing too much on the youngest?

He needs to move on from parenting little ones to parenting teens. It’s a totally different skill set.

We’ve found being collaborative works best you can’t be all Victorian authoritarian and tell them what to do anymore. Well you can but you will trash your relationship and push them away as he is finding. Whether you want to help him is up to you if he is too thick to figure this out guess that’s his problem.

So what they do usually revolves around his and stepmum's dog who can't be left alone. So they are forced on multiple daily dog walks (he won't leave her on her own in the house) and dog friendly activities. Day trips out or hanging around the house. He plays FIFA with the boys a lot and they have a daily movie night which she is obliged to attend (she'd rather stay in her room but isn't allowed). She's not allowed to go out alone.

He thinks I'm too laisssz-faire with my parenting. I'm quite child-led for example I don't give her phone limits (but I do monitor useage) and she regulates herself well. I don't force them to eat all their food etc.

I definitely think this is a really good opportunity for you to ensure she knows she is not responsible for keeping her dad happy when she is not. And to have lots of conversations with her about how important her happiness is. As a mum of a daughter who was in an emotionally abusive relationship for a long time without us knowing, I really wished we'd had chance to discuss boundaries before it started, rather than pick up the pieces after it ended. 💔 Good luck OP it sounds like you have her back.

So what they do usually revolves around his and stepmum's dog who can't be left alone.

Christ, no wonder she doesn't want to go! You on the other hand sound like you're getting the balance just right so at least DD has one great parent, even if her dad is a bit rubbish

That’s a bit of a red flag tbh…why does he do that?

Don't make her go. I had the same situation with my ex and it took me far too long to help her to stand up to his bullying. She barely sees him now, but that's his fault.

Could you buy her a cheap £10 burner phone that she keeps hidden so she can contact you if she needs to? Then she can surrender her usual phone to her dad?

Appreciate that's not a good long term solution but she might feel better knowing your support is secretly there. Hugs to your daughter it's such a tricky one when parents make their feelings the responsibility of their kids ☹️

I would coach her to talk directly and assertively to him, with a backstop of reassuring her that you will not make her go if she does not want to. As teen years approach time with their friends is so important.

Tell her that it is OK to say to her Dad that she does not like the way he speaks to her. Tell her it is always strongest to speak before you get really upset. She could practice some phrases. “Dad, you don’t speak to my brothers like that, could you show me the same respect please?” “Dad, I am not a small child any more, and it doesn’t feel good to be distrusted. I would like to be in contact with my friends so can I have my phone please?” “Dad, I love you, I don’t want to stop seeing you, but I don’t like the way you speak to me”.

If he ramps up his treatment of her just make excuses. She isn’t going because she has an event / sore throat/ wants to see her friends or whatever. He will have had his warning.

If he kicks off say “she does not want to come this weekend and is very sure about it. She is She is getting old enough to make her choices”

Bloody hell, no wonder she doesn’t want to spend her weekend like that.

Great advice thank you. I will do this.

I think removing her phone is a step too far if she is using it appropriately and not letting it dominate her time with her Dad. As her Mum, I would simply say that you wanted to contact her and could not do so and that you want that direct communication channel kept open. You be the bad guy and insist that he doesn't remove her phone.

With regard to how he speaks to her/treats her, again, I would have a conversation with him about her getting older and that it is now appropriate for her to have more freedom etc, etc. You do not have to involve her in this discussion or intimate that she may have initiated it.

If he refuses on either count I would then consider my next move.