WFH with children

[Annie232]

On many threads I hear women pop up and mention how they WFH x number of days and so don't need childcare on x number of days. Incidentally, within my NCT group on discussions on return to work a few of the women have said similar and that they plan to WFH 1/2 days a week and therefore save on childcare. Is this a thing now?

Yip and look at the increased numbers of 5 and 6 year olds needing speech therapy.
Those 5 /6 year olds were 2/3 when covid kicked off.

@Wiluli 1 year old stays with partner when I work ( he leaves at 5 am back at 2 pm and I get up at 5:30 am to be able to work 3 hours until daughter goes to school . I admit I often work non social hours . I’m still getting used to it as I’ve just finished maternity leave last month but it’s ok

Lol so the reality is actually a far cry from what you are trying to paint on this thread. Bizarre.

As I said in a previous post, some posters here like to make it seem as though they are somehow bossing a 6 figure job while giving their child undivided attention and everyone and everything is thriving. That’s not the reality.
If they ‘wfh with children’ actually what they mean is they are just generally at home with children, and then work during other hours when some else is actually looking after the child.

@TheNinny that makes logical sense 3/2 days for a couple of hours with the telly or toys would be fine.

I just think 5 days of it could become really boring for her (or she'll become a telly addict).

I would agree you want her in school near home rather than miles away or it becomes difficult when it comes to a social life (party's, clubs, play dates) outside school.

Some people are getting a really hard time for essentially having a flexible employer. So what if your contract says 40 hours and you can get the work done in 10? As long as this is a case of a senior person being on top of task/having enough autonomy to manage down working hours, and other staff are not picking up the slack, I see nothing wrong with it.
I am in a slightly different position in that, rather than doing my job any time I like, my work is so ‘up and down’ that I can be flat out busy for weeks (working very late hours in some cases) and then have absolutely nothing to do for weeks on end. I don’t mean I can get away with just bits of admin, I mean literally no work to do - so I don’t bother logging on and I can go to a pilates class mid-morning and get a pedicure mid-afternoon etc. I don’t feel guilty / like I am taking the piss, because I know as soon as work picks up again I’ll be burning the light at both ends and barely having enough time to eat let alone take myself to pilates/the nail salon.

Some people are getting a really hard time for essentially having a flexible employer. So what if your contract says 40 hours and you can get the work done in 10? As long as this is a case of a senior person being on top of task/having enough autonomy to manage down working hours, and other staff are not picking up the slack, I see nothing wrong with it.

No one's 40 hour contract is so flexible that you can always do the work in 10 (different if your work comes in peaks and troughs so that sometimes your are very busy and sometimes not, as it evens out). Unless your manager is inept or you have done a good job of convincing them that it actually takes longer than it does.

My experience of this is the people redefine their job to fit into the hours that they feel they want to work, rather than the hours they are actually contracted to do, and others end up picking up the slack. If a senior person was so on top of their job that they could do it in 25% of their time, I'd frankly expect them to be looking round to see what else they could do to add value/support more junior colleague etc. My ex-manager used to take huge swathes of time off during the day because he claimed he was on top of everything he had to do, whilst ignoring all the stuff I escalated to him as he "didn't have time for this", so I was left sorting out a bunch of things he should have done, on top of doing my actual job. What people claim and the reality are often two different things.

In some workplaces it’s really not so easy to take work off junior people so they have a smaller workload. Where I work you’d be accused of not letting them develop and for hogging client work. A lot of senior roles are mostly ‘oversight’ where you’re expected to be around when the shit hits the fan but when things are chugging along nicely there’s not much to do. You’re essentially ‘on call’ as one poster put it.
I just think the rush on this thread to ‘call bullshit’ or accuse people of taking the piss shows a complete lack of imagination / understanding of how differently some workplaces and jobs operate.

Love this!

I can't think how that sort of working pattern would work if you needed childcare when work was hectic, unless you have extremely flexible childcare - like grandparents who are able to be flexible.

nb I realise your post isn't discussing your own childcare situation.

I heard about the BBC report about child speech delays on the radio this morning.

'The number of five and six year olds who need speech and language support at school has risen by 10% in England over the past year, BBC analysis shows.

The increase, which is substantially greater than previous years, is partly due to lockdown limiting social interactions, experts say.'

Parents had very little choice during lockdown, but they do have a choice now.

I can’t help noticing a lot of what you’re posting is unintelligible. Do you have your kids with you?😂

Sorry @Dinoteeth, I just reread my last post and it sounds unnecessarily curt towards you. I just meant for my post to support what you are saying.

I was just giving an example of where you can do literally no work for weeks and still be paid in full for your ‘contracted hours’. Plenty of jobs aren’t about being online/contactable for the exact number of hours it says in the contract. I find it strange how much of a hard time people on this thread got for describing a work pattern that is really not all that unusual (especially professional/skilled work at senior levels).

In some workplaces it’s really not so easy to take work off junior people so they have a smaller workload. Where I work you’d be accused of not letting them develop and for hogging client work

I'm not suggesting that senior people do junior people's work.

I'm suggesting that they look at what their teams are doing and if there is anything that can be improved. And then look to make a plan to action it.
Which should be within the remit of a senior person anyway ...

Absolutely agree that that would typically be in the remit of a senior manager, but reviewing a report and providing feedback takes a fraction of the time it takes to actually produce the report, for example. This is what I mean about these roles being largely ‘oversight’.

I should add that not all senior managers manage really junior people who need hand-holding and on-the-job training. Some have very skilled professionals reporting into them who themselves are senior and experienced (and often have more up to date technical skills, as these move quickly in some industries). A strong team below you can massively reduce your workload, particularly if your staff are motivated and want to get promoted etc - they often want to take work off your hands. When you consider all that, 10 hours of actual work for a full time senior role doesn’t seem so fanciful.

Where I work, senior leaders are expected to do things like corporate initiatives, mentoring, speaking at team meetings, slots at training sessions, stuff to raise awareness of the organisation.

Oversight of your own team is only maybe half your time - but you are expected to be available to them in working hours. E.g. a member of my team has a young son who fainted, she dashed off to hospital and he may have cancer. I needed to be around to emotionally support her and to reallocate her work. I think I would be failing her if I was off at playgroup. She is usually someone very independent work wise and in no need of micro management

A work contract is a legally binding agreement.
If you are not working your contracted hours while looking after children (regardless how fast/slow worker you are in your child-free moments) then you have broken your contract and can be dismissed / downgraded to a part time or flexible hours contract for your actual working hours and (for some) sued for the hours you have effectively stolen from your employer to date.

This is happening more now people are forgetting to set up official flexible working contracts with agreed new working times post lockdown (to maintain their new lifestyle and reflect their actual output hours). Some employers hadn't been prepared to deal with it as not enough precedents/case law yet.

You at least need to check any WFH policies, make sure you employer is aware of your situation being baby-adjacent and get agreement in writing to protect yourself should anyone from HR start an investigation. And if you dont, figure out how quickly you can get a new job should you be dismissed. All you need is one disgruntled colleague to tip them off if they feel there is inequality going on.

I’m dyslexic and to be honest just came out of gallbladder surgery yesterday and a bit high on meds and very tired . But you of course believe what you wish . I have nothing to prove to you . I’m absolutely fine wfh with or without kids , and have done so the last 5 years . I agree not every job will be conducive with wfh but mine is .

No as I put above , I admit I’m a bit high on meds I just had gallbladder surgery yesterday . And I’m also dyslexic and had my keyboard on another language, which I would normally workout fast but 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m brain dead the general anaesthetic really was tough on me for some reason

I think if that were the case the employers would have cottoned on by now, they have quite sophisticated software to monitor call length, how long people are waiting before the call is picked up etc. I just don't think they care - they are happy to take the money from customers and then ignore them when things go wrong/block access by using chatbots etc.

I don't think you can work from home with a small child, but you can probably save on the wraparound care with school-age children depending on the job or whether you work part-time. My son is older now but I could easily fit my current job around school hours if I needed to.

So you are agreeing that yours is far from a "normal" situation and so you shouldn't be speaking for the millions of women with bog standard normal jobs who can't necessarily get away with doing what you do.
It's irresponsible to advise the naive on here to do this when they could be putting their careers at risk when it could be against their legally agreed contracts.
It's especially dangerous to be offering ill career advice in the current (& forecast) financial climate.

But lots of jobs can be fine this way . 3 close friends work in the insurance industry and in a legal setting as myself , they all do at least 2 days of work at home a week , on those days they do their important calls when the partners are home and replies and email sending once kids are in bed and before they get up . Lots of wfh jobs do not require fixed office hours just for those hours to be done in a set period if time and off course for targets to be achieved .
Personally I do not care if Anna , Patel and Mia ( fictitious names ) have their kids at home with them or not or if they do the school pick up or go to baby yoga , all I care is they present their work as they should and meet team expectations .
Even during covid with 2 kids at home I still worked the whole time , it was harder but doable , yes none where babies and it involved me finishing a few meetings in the car to hide from noise but targets here meet , children where entertained and somehow my mental health is still intact .

Most people who do it won’t be doing it 5 days a week and probably with a target of the kids getting to free nursery age . It’s a sacrifice people do but it’s also rewarding in my case . All of my kids have amazing work ethics , the older ones learned to read while I worked and wanted to “ work “ with mum at times . The 6 year old could pretty much be at least a Sectetary by now the amount she knows lol

they all do at least 2 days of work at home a week , on those days they do their important calls when the partners are home and replies and email sending once kids are in bed and before they get up

So they're not doing childcare while working, thus not relevant to the discussion.

Let's just hope a load of naive working new mums don't wrongly take away from this that they dont need to join any nursery/childcare waiting lists at all when their Mat leave is over

Well the meds might explain why you're discussing a vastly different situation.
Had you prefaced with 'if you can work your day very flexibly to complete your work when your children are sleeping at night and you won't be called into the office at the last minute then it's doable but having sole parental responsibility for a two year whilst trying to do a 9 - 5 job isn't going to work' then it would be different. But you didn't.
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