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3 Hour Blackouts

510 replies

pyjamafashionista · 03/11/2022 22:19

If they happen, they are saying they'll be planned between 4-7pm. Surely this is the most ridiculous time, when most people will still be at work/ travelling home/making tea etc.
Any genius thoughts to get through a 3 hour blackout besides blankets and 🕯
I feel really sad for vulnerable people on their own if it happens 😪

OP posts:
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5
RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 13:50

RuthW · 04/11/2022 12:10

Exactly. Cold pizza cooked the night before isn't going to hack it after a days work.

Dear God.

Of course its going to 'hack it'. Thats just petty belligerence if you can't cope for one night with a cold meal.

You'll be absoluetely fine. And pretty much the last type of person I'll have sympathy with over cuts.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 04/11/2022 13:56

RuthW · 04/11/2022 12:10

Exactly. Cold pizza cooked the night before isn't going to hack it after a days work.

If a hot evening meal is important to you then you can travel to a neighbouring area to eat out or buy takeaway.

Alternatively make a soup/stew/curry in advance and put it in a food flask.

speakout · 04/11/2022 14:12

Or cook on a gas hob.

BerriesOnTop · 04/11/2022 14:12

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 13:50

Dear God.

Of course its going to 'hack it'. Thats just petty belligerence if you can't cope for one night with a cold meal.

You'll be absoluetely fine. And pretty much the last type of person I'll have sympathy with over cuts.

Tbh it’s unacceptable for a first-world country to have regular power cuts. Sounds like the UK should get a downgrade or something if you can’t keep the lights on 🤦‍♀️

flamingogold · 04/11/2022 14:16

The whole of Europe is looking at power cuts this year and the US, Canada, Australia and NZ already have them fairly regularly. I don't think it is this which should disqualify the UK from being a first world country.

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2022 14:23

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 13:50

Dear God.

Of course its going to 'hack it'. Thats just petty belligerence if you can't cope for one night with a cold meal.

You'll be absoluetely fine. And pretty much the last type of person I'll have sympathy with over cuts.

TBF You don't know what she does for living or how long shifts are or dietary requirements....... .

Berries is the last person i'd normally agree with but we shouldn't be having power cuts.... when apparently we only import 3% of Russian gas...

Do we sail so close to the wind (or not with a tory govt) that losing such a tiny amount will lead to rolling power cuts?????

Why haven't we got months of gas storage?

Tulipomania · 04/11/2022 14:24

Tbh it’s unacceptable for a first-world country to have regular power cuts. Sounds like the UK should get a downgrade or something if you can’t keep the lights on

Have you told Putin?

Tulipomania · 04/11/2022 14:25

apparently we only import 3% of Russian gas...

Yes but there is an international shortage of gas due to the invasion of Ukraine which is what sets the gas price.

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/11/2022 14:40

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2022 14:23

TBF You don't know what she does for living or how long shifts are or dietary requirements....... .

Berries is the last person i'd normally agree with but we shouldn't be having power cuts.... when apparently we only import 3% of Russian gas...

Do we sail so close to the wind (or not with a tory govt) that losing such a tiny amount will lead to rolling power cuts?????

Why haven't we got months of gas storage?

Dear oh dear.
It’s not our 3% that’s the problem! The other 97% we get is being needed by everyone else who gets usually far more from Russia! What about this don’t people understand?
When someone affects one country it affects us all because we are hugely interconnected and intertwined!

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2022 14:42

Tulipomania · 04/11/2022 14:25

apparently we only import 3% of Russian gas...

Yes but there is an international shortage of gas due to the invasion of Ukraine which is what sets the gas price.

Yes obviously but we produce 50% of what we need... renewables make up another 17% then nuclear and some coal.

Of all countries in Europe (Norway aside) ... we shouldn't be having power cuts.

ListenLinda · 04/11/2022 15:01

Can someone explain what the numbers across the top represent? I’m sorry if it’s a stupid question but I just can’t understand it.

stopitstopitnow · 04/11/2022 15:06

Why haven't we got months of gas storage?

Because Centrica and the Government thought it would be a good idea to get rid of gas storage facilities in 2017.

Anactor · 04/11/2022 15:30

stopitstopitnow · 04/11/2022 15:06

Why haven't we got months of gas storage?

Because Centrica and the Government thought it would be a good idea to get rid of gas storage facilities in 2017.

Yeah, we made the same mistake Germany did - thinking supplies were secure. So an economic rather than a strategic decision was made; replacing the storage would cost too much.

Oops.

Centrica has reopened the Rough storage, but at 20% capacity. Still, it gives us a bit more wiggle room.

gamerchick · 04/11/2022 15:34

ListenLinda · 04/11/2022 15:01

Can someone explain what the numbers across the top represent? I’m sorry if it’s a stupid question but I just can’t understand it.

It's accumulation. If 1 didn't work they would activate 1 and 2 at once. Then 1, 2 and 3 and so on. 18 is total blackout all day

Just look under 1 and ignore the rest. Hurts your head otherwise.

Isseywith3witchycats · 04/11/2022 15:34

this is where our free standing gas cooker will come in handy wont be able to use the oven but will be able to use the rings on top with a lighter and as we camp i have some ace battery operated light bulb type lamps so will use them hoping we wont have to though

BerriesOnTop · 04/11/2022 15:36

flamingogold · 04/11/2022 14:16

The whole of Europe is looking at power cuts this year and the US, Canada, Australia and NZ already have them fairly regularly. I don't think it is this which should disqualify the UK from being a first world country.

Theres a huge difference between weather-related power outages as in US and regularly scheduled power cuts as in South Africa.

BerriesOnTop · 04/11/2022 15:41

Tulipomania · 04/11/2022 14:24

Tbh it’s unacceptable for a first-world country to have regular power cuts. Sounds like the UK should get a downgrade or something if you can’t keep the lights on

Have you told Putin?

I know it’s not the UK’s fault, but someone should have told Germany it was a bad idea to be so incredibly dependent on Russia for energy needs.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 16:10

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/11/2022 14:40

Dear oh dear.
It’s not our 3% that’s the problem! The other 97% we get is being needed by everyone else who gets usually far more from Russia! What about this don’t people understand?
When someone affects one country it affects us all because we are hugely interconnected and intertwined!

You clearly don't fully get what the risk is here for the UK.

For starters, the bulk of our gas comes from Norway. We have had a long standing agreement in place with Norway, which means Norway has certain obligations to the UK that it has to meet before it can offer gas to other countries it didn't have pre-existing agreements with. This is a treaty level agreement.

These are legally binding.

As we saw with the covid vaccine saga, a good contract can put you 'at the front of the queue'. Having a preexisting agreement makes it a lot secure for the Uk. I believe this accounts for over 60% of our imports. The fact we have dedicated pipelines direct from Norway to the UK do tend to favour us too.

This is at State (diplomatic) level and private sector level.

In addition to the existing agreements we also have this:
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/16/british-gas-owner-centrica-signs-deal-norway-equinor-extra-gas-supplies
In June there was a big deal between British Gas and the state owned Norweigan oil company Equinor.

Now if anyone can tell me why Norway would sign a new deal to supply more gas to the UK if they couldn't maintain existing contracts to supply, then crack on. We have to pay the going rate which is the tough bit for us, but the supply itself is pretty secure - at least politically and contractually.

Its crucial for Norway too and worth remembering about Norway's state ownership of energy at this point. This is why you have great big floating vessels manned by the norweigian state military keeping an eye on the pipelines...

The next biggest source is Qatar. Why do you think we are sucking up to Qatar and not saying a lot about human rights atm, and football fans seeking to visit Qatar actively being told by the Foreign Sec to respect the culture there (and not mention 'The Gays'?)

This is perhaps subject to competitive pressures more and diplomatic sensitivities are relevant in that context. I note at this point, that on the day Sunak was doing his reshuffle, one of the calls Cleverly was making was to Qatar. This is a government priority and they do seem to be on the ball.

After that comes the Netherlands. But again, this will be largely protected in law and with agreement with private companies to supply. See my comments above about being in covid queue and existing contractual obligations protected under EU law.

By the time we get into the rest of the supply we aren't looking at huge quanities. I think we are currently importing more from the US than this graphic from 2015 suggests, and in terms of going forward this could be more problematic with more competition but going into THIS winter, we SHOULD be reasonably ok.

We probably can reduce consumption a fair bit too which will shave % points off what we need to import compared with last year as well.

Competition for demand with other countries should also be taken with it in mind that whilst WE don't have lots of storage capacity, the likes of Germany does and it is trying to keep it topped up as much as possible ahead of peak demand points, to a degree it doesn't normally have to. Thus we are not competiting with just in time style supply and this has also been reflected in the fact that the wholesale price has reduced considerably since the summer.

YES we absoluetely SHOULD be concerned. There is an issue with energy security in the UK. HOWEVER, going into this year the primary concern is over the market rate we have to pay for the UK rather than actual supply issues.

The lack of surplus in the market, is a worry if we have things like a strike in Norway or there is a fault with pipes or deliveries are late/blocked by things like a block in the Suez etc etc because that means we are more vulnerable to events out of our control.

This is why I am stressing this is more about a greater risk from black swan type events rather than having less supply available to us because of Russia directly. We have enough to cover our demands, proved there isn't an unforeseen issue. This is what makes our position much more favourable than say Germany's.

Long term we need to seriously be thinking about greater levels of energy self sufficiency so we are less exposed to market issues and black swan type events.

It has been the case that we have been at risk from the same problem for a number of years, the difference this year is that ability to adapt and find alternative sources should something not go to plan, is more serious.

We don't yet have a reasonable long term sustainability and supply policy for the UK which will give us energy security. THAT is the right issue this whole crisis tells us. We are also increasingly aware that sucking up to states with a dubious track record on human rights probably isn't working out too well with the Russian example, and this is starting to focus minds to move away from dependency on Gulf States.

I do wish that people would understand the nature of the structure of the supply/demand system on industry. We lack of understanding in this area, has contributed to poor decision making over the ref and subsequent delivery of Brexit.

Its also a REAL bug bear of mine about the poor understanding of why we do contigency planning and what constituents success in this. Again highlighted by Brexit and Covid.

If we are seeing contigency planning IT IS A GOOD THING. This also doesn't mean to say there is an immenient define bad thing that is definitely going to happen. Cos this is the point of contigency planning.

SO STOP IT WITH THE CATASTROPHISING!

And to be completely blunt about it, if the Norweigan pipeline somehow gets blown up, I can't say my first worry is going to be about whether we have a 3 hour black out on Wednesday evening tbh...

3 Hour Blackouts
RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 16:12

BerriesOnTop · 04/11/2022 15:36

Theres a huge difference between weather-related power outages as in US and regularly scheduled power cuts as in South Africa.

I'm sure the fact that Texas wasn't connected to the rest of the US grid because of commerical bollocks had nothing to do with the supply and price gouging problems there a couple of years ago... It was definitely nothing to do with regulation failures and political ineptitude. Nope definitely not.

darisdet · 04/11/2022 16:13

Informative post! @RedToothBrush

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 16:15

FWIW, I'm currently looking at what the UK grid is producing. Its reading at 107% of demand. Anything over 100% is export.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2022 16:27

Also, in scaring people about prices, that will drive down demand and in turn the unit price (which the government have said they will partly pay for until April).

There is a lot of political incentive to scare people on this, because a) it will cost the government less if we use less energy b) it isn't as likely we will need rolling blackouts which will make the government even less popular c) it helps us reduce demand without the need for political intervention elsewhere.

The EU have brought in obligations for all countries to reduce their consumption:
“Extraordinary measures” have just been formally agreed including a voluntary 10 per cent cut in electricity consumption and a mandatory 5 per cent cut during peak hours for EU nations.

“Member states will identify 10 per cent of their peak hours between 1 December 2022 and 31 March 2023 during which they will reduce the demand,” the European Council said.

If the government can get us to do similar without bringing in set policies such as banning christmas light or not having pools heated above a certain level, without us realising whats going on, its to their favour.

SeatonCarew · 04/11/2022 18:02

Ponoka7 · 04/11/2022 06:57

I say it on every thread, if we have a blackout, use that time to protest in the streets. There are protests across Europe, we are the only ones not protesting. Having a power cut is a big deal for whole groups of people. When we had power cuts in the 70's, the institutions (were we shoved disabled people into) were open. We didn't have people 'suppoetted' to live at home. We didn't live with the health conditions that we do now. There must be people living in fear at the thought of this. How do you think the autistic etc children and adults are going to cope with this massive change in routine? This is going to cost social care a fortune in support services. They are talking about opening public buildings. Our libraries have already started opening extended hours and serve tea and coffee.
As for posters saying that we'll manage with no traffic lights, at peak times, in the dark when children are coming home? You don't think that there are going to be fatalities? Are you the posters who were telling people that milk wasn't essential and to put cheese in their coffee? Or that walking in a empty field was risking infection, during lockdown? People's mental health is only just recovering from lock down, many won't survive this. Give a shit about other people and protest this.

If you wish to protest to the relevant authorities, the address is Mr Putin, The Kremlin, Moscow. Let us know how you get on.

Alternatively, you could stop being such a drama llama, sit down with a cup of coffee and make a list of one or two basic preparations you could make in the possible. but unlikely event of a few power cuts in January.

Sorry to spoil your rant but this is ridiculous.

Applesandcarrots · 04/11/2022 18:05

I use like 4kwh a day. I feel quite put out that they are still trying to curb my consumption 😂

SeatonCarew · 04/11/2022 18:11

BarbaraofSeville · 04/11/2022 07:24

We've been near the limit of electricity supply for years. Then they shutdown the remaining coal fired power stations. Took away gas storage. Increased use of electric cars. Then the war jn Ukraine happened, putting further pressure on European, and hence uk gas supplies.

There's been plans in place for decades to do this, but now it's becoming more realistic that they may have to be implemented.

It's not scaremongering, it's called emergency planning and there's a whole system in place that is regularly tested.

Wait until some people find out about all the nuclear, chemical and other disaster planning is in place. It's all been thought about.

Some of us spend a lot of our working lives as if the 'what ifs' had actually happened.

Thank you Barbara for (so often) saving me from typing all this out.

Spot on as usual on matters energy. 💡

Listen Barbara and don't panic.

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