AIBU for continuing to work while a coworker was having a seizure?

[keepnonworkn]

Earlier today while I was at work a coworker collapsed and started having a seizure. Several other coworkers (who were closer to her than I was) rushed over to help. I being farther away looked up to see what was going on. There was a group of 7 or so people surrounding her by that point and moving things out of the way. Someone was already calling for an ambulance. To me it seems like everything was being handed and since we had some tight deadlines to meet for our clients I went back to working while this was going on. After she was taken away in the ambulance one of my other coworkers approached me. She said what I did was wrong and I should have stopped working and tried to help her since there was a crisis. I don't see how me crowding around with all the others would have been any help though. I don't have any medical training and wouldn't have known what else to do except call an ambulance, which someone else was already doing.

*to NOT pretend

@amispeakingintongues I agree with everything you have written! I had a colleague who suffered with their joints and heart have 2 emergencies whilst at work. I just couldn’t / wouldn’t continue working whilst my colleague was suffering. None of us in our office continued working whilst it was going on, it is so unimportant compared to a colleagues health. Especially something like a seizure.

I would say OP you are not being unreasonable for not wanting to crowd over your colleague and I think you did the right thing not doing that but I do think YABU for continuing your work and it does look a bit like lack of respect for colleague or the medical emergency going on right near you.

But again, what for? It’s all performative. And what is the weird obsession with shutting down laptops?!

Imagine the scene. “Yes, poor Paula was shaking and her eyes were rolling; we were worried she’d hit her head. But what was really worrying everyone was, who on earth was going to shut down her laptop? Thank goodness for OP. If she hadn’t had the presence of mind to shut down the laptop, it would have just eventually gone into sleep mode. I can’t even bring myself to think about the potential consequences.”

The colleague who has tried to pull you up on your behaviour, after "helping" (but probably not actually helping or not much) is the one who is the problem, because she just loves the drama so much she wants to create some more.

If you have a sensible boss, I'd bring up that this person needs more training on First Aid and how to behave in and after a crisis, and what the company policy is around dealing with this type of situation, because it's a disability issue too 😉

We are not suggesting everyone should crowd around the sick person; we are suggesting respecting the reality of the situation by not carrying on as normal."

@amispeakingintongues but what are you saying people should actually do? "Not carrying on as normal" - so stopping working but then just sitting at your desk? or going to the canteen/kitchen or somewhere else? I'm not trying to be arsey here, I genuinely don't understand what you think people should physically do. I realise that on first glance "I kept working" does come across as heartless to some but I think it's the best course, as there aren't any alternatives surely? No help was needed, there were too many people around already. Whatever you do makes no difference at all to the person involved, they were taken care of.

I agree with your comment "Respecting the reality of the situation" I think we just have different ideas what the respect looks like. To me being respectful looks like just getting on with your job - the people who have actually been in this situation say that, and it's their feelings/choices that should be respected. Turning your computer off or putting your pen down makes absolutely fuck all difference to what is happening to them.

@MRSDoos

"I just couldn’t / wouldn’t continue working whilst my colleague was suffering"

Please can you say what you actually did? Standing around talking instead of working? Sit in silence? Does that show more "respect"? Personally I hate the thought of people doing that, as do the overwhelming majority of epileptics/ people who have been in the "patients" position. Why are people ignoring their opinions and preferences, aren't they the ones that matter? It's not about the feeling of the bystanders.

Ok, she's have a seizure, if you could just move the chairs out of the way...

#1 Can I do anything?

No thanks, we're good here.

#2 Can I do anything?

No thanks, we're good here.

#3 Should I phone her next of kin?

No thanks, Sarah's dealing with it after she's called the ambulance because it's in the plan

#4 Can I do anything?

No thanks, we're good here.

#5 Oh, it's terrible, isn't it?

Hmm? We're good here.

#6 Can I do anything?

We're good here, thanks.

Beth, could you not? #7 'I'm just collecting up her bag and I need to log her out of the system' You're standing over her, can you not do that? It'll log out by itself. We're good here.

#3 Anybody want a cup of tea?

Uh, no.

#3 What about coffee? I can make coffee?

No, thank you.

#5 to #4 It's such a worry, isn't it, when somebody is taken ill? Oh yes, I knew somebody once who died at work and -

I'm trying to check her pulse, could you have this conversation somewhere else?

#3 Somebody get a spoon to put under her tongue

No, don't do that - NO. We're fine, you don't need to do anything.

#2 I've got a blanket!

And?

#3 Let me put it under her -

NO. Leave it, we're fine.

#5 What about opening up the gate?

Reception do that.

#5 But what if they haven't heard?

They have. Sarah notifies them after the call. OK, Annie, I'm going to move you over onto your side now to help your breathing, so I'll be moving your arms and legs a bit. (whilst watching for somebody coming out of a seizure being disoriented and potentially responding with fear/aggression)

#3 Put her on her back, I'll help

No, don't.

#4 I'll get one leg, #5 you get the other, we'll get her on a chair and she can -

No, she needs to be on her side, let her leg go.

#3 I've got some biscuits if anybody wants one.

#7 Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

Yes?

#7 What can I do?

Nothing.

#2,3,4,5,6 & 7 converse, tutting and frowning and one decides to come over all empath like so they get some more attention. Could you not have this conversation somewhere else? I am a little busy here right now.

#5 Look over there, she's just getting on with her work, the wicked woman. Some people aren't right in the head, are they? We need to be here to show interest and -

JUST FUCK OFF AND LET ME PROVIDE FIRST AID.

@NeverDropYourMooncup That was brilliant

@NeverDropYourMooncup 😂😂🤣

I love you.

Alright we get it, you like to be the saviour.

Again, i’m not suggesting everyone helps or crowds around, as your script quite descriptively outlines.

I’m saying that continuing to actually work is disrespectful. If anyone disagrees with that, and sees that as “performative” it wouldn’t surprise me because we live in an increasingly self centred world with fucked up priorities and 0 respect for eachother. COLLEAGUES OVER CLIENTS

What's more self-centred than putting your desire to show your concern, to come across as empathetic, to look good in front of your colleagues, in front of what's actually useful and helpful, like leaving space for the qualified to help, giving the person who's unwell some dignity, and yes, if it does no harm, getting on with some work, so that the ill person doesn't have to find out that their seizure was so disruptive that it caused all work to stop and important deadlines to be unnecessarily missed?

I let my concern show when it would be helpful to do so — say, I'm with someone who's struggling and seeing my concern for them would help them, or I'm getting help for someone and showing that I'm concerned would get across that the situation is serious. In the OP's situation, actively displaying my concern by going over and interfering, or by stopping all work when I'm feeling fine to work and it's not causing harm, would be purely for my benefit — to make others think well of me.

Personally I hate the thought of people doing that, as do the overwhelming majority of epileptics/ people who have been in the "patients" position. Why are people ignoring their opinions and preferences, aren't they the ones that matter? It's not about the feeling of the bystanders.

I’d love to know the answer to this too.

I’ve had several people negatively comment on the fact that I don’t push DD’s hair out of her face when she’s having a seizure. DD has made it very clear she doesn’t want us to. She hates the way her face looks while she’s having a seizure and is very upset by it, so I respect her wishes and give her that tiny bit of dignity. People don’t listen, think they know better and argue with me about it. Just. Fuck. Off!!!

if anyone disagrees with that, and sees that as “performative” it wouldn’t surprise me because we live in an increasingly self centred world with fucked up priorities and 0 respect for each other

No, I disagree with it because, as the parent of a child who has regular seizures, I know that people fucking off and getting on with their work/shopping/dinner/minding their own business is exactly what she does want.

In this case, it's the needs of the person who requires first aid above the feelings of those who wish to be seen as being the most caring. And that is achieved by allowing the first aider to do their job - to put the welfare, safety and dignity of the person needing first aid above everything else - including the unwanted audience's feelings.

There's nothing glamorous about holding somebody's head still for two hours in a half squat position because some prat decided they should be dragged off the floor and onto a chair and somebody else decided it was absolutely essential to start mopping up the blood from their head injury whilst you're talking to them to establish their level of consciousness, hoping to hell that the twat who moved them hasn't caused a cervical vertebrae fracture to open up and knowing that it's going to be an absolute pig for the paramedics to get them into a scoop without risking that same spinal cord. There's nothing glamorous about having to say five times 'no, the evacuation chair isn't appropriate for somebody whose shin is currently banana shaped, even if you think he might be more comfortable up three flights of stairs in the canteen where he can have a cup of tea and a sandwich'. And still having them turn up with it because they wouldn't listen to you when you said it wasn't needed.

The only thing worse than a bunch of people gawping at you blankly when there is an emergency situation is a bunch of people all talking at one another, interfering, not listening and not letting the defined procedures to take place. The untrained saviours are the biggest risk of all.

Do you think my brother needed people being sympathetic and demanding attention from the trained person whilst they performed CPR on him (ultimately unsuccessful as he was taken for organ donation surgery a few days later)? No. He needed one person to perform CPR and one to phone for the ambulance then take over when the first got tired, swapping until the paramedics got to the road he was laying on. Did he need people chatting amongst themselves about blood coming from his head? No. Did I need to read the descriptions (lies, actually) on social media before I knew it was my brother that there was blood trailing halfway down the road and bits of brain everywhere? I really didn't. And I definitely didn't want to read people bitching about how they tried to move him out of the road but the bad man who got my brother's heart beating again wasn't very nice to them when he told them to leave him alone. Especially as the neurosurgeon said he was surprised at the level of damage to the back of his brain for such a low impact injury on his forehead, 'as though he'd been dropped from a height of about a metre or so onto the back of his head'.

@WomanStanleyWoman2 , I only gave exampels of doing something usefull, so NO, she should not have rushed in. And no she should not interrumpt the first aid providers with her announcements. Where did you read that by the way? You don't think it's possible to quitely make yourself usefull without being in the spotlights? Let me just clarify that just going on with your work seems rather cold to me, and that I (and I'm only speeking for myself) woud try and do something beneficial.

I’m saying that continuing to actually work is disrespectful. If anyone disagrees with that, and sees that as “performative” it wouldn’t surprise me because we live in an increasingly self centred world with fucked up priorities and 0 respect for eachother. COLLEAGUES OVER CLIENTS Wink

Yet again, no concrete description or explanation of what you would have done instead of working that would have been oh so ‘respectful’?

But WHAT was she going to do to make herself quietly useful? I’ve yet to see an example that makes sense.

That sounds horrific @NeverDropYourMooncup I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Unfortunately, whilst it's the most serious, it's not the only time meddlers have been an issue.

I was in a car accident in the mid nineties and somebody decided to drag me upright whilst I was still out of it - I had a fracture of my 2nd cervical vertebrae. I was extremely lucky in only ending up with a permanently numb left outer forearm and percussion side of the palm. And it only took about 15 years to be able to stand on one leg without falling over sideways.

Then there was the time I didn't lose consciousness quite long enough for somebody to try and pull me out from under a car - the paramedics' first sight of me was my legs kicking out at people because I didn't want anybody pulling me out and trying to take my lid off as I was breathing fine.

Then there have been first aid incidents including a fall with a painful neck where somebody swept in, grabbed the person by the head and started moving it around like a ball on a stick going 'Does your neck hurt?', one where a fainter was safely in recovery position where they were dragged by the ankles and put flat on their back with their airway being closed off whilst still out of it, people suffering anxiety attacks where they weren't allowed to sit on the floor and allow their breathing to come back to normal but were made to walk or get up and sit on chairs when they were still hyperventilating/dizzy, the stupid arse comments about fucking spoons whilst I was quite comfortable protecting somebody's head waiting for the ambulance as they weren't coming out of their seizure, the constant babble and chatter and interference when you're trying to check pulse and breathing whilst coming across as calm and relaxed so as not to scare the person hurt/ill - it seems that the major part of First Aid is protecting the person from others interfering, not anything else.

The fact that I'm not the only person to say on here JUST FUCK OFF suggests my experiences aren't unique.

@NeverDropYourMooncup great post!
I wish people would bloody listen. First Aiders/Responders on this thread have repeatedly said they don't want hang-wringing and virtue signalling bystanders, as have several posters who have seizures. They want their dignity maintained.

No one has said what OP should be doing. What is the happy medium between being a head tilting concerned Hun, and getting on with their work?

I have been in a similar situation. I stayed out of the "helping" but got my friend's coat and wallet ready and handed those to the ambulance people 🤷🏼‍♀️

YANBU to have continued working, but barely acknowledging something has happened would seem a bit off to me.

Even if it was to ask the person doing first aid if there was anything practical they needed or to ask the first aider if it would help for everyone to give them some space.

OP looked at the situation, judged it was being dealt with, and got back to work.

What does "barely acknowledging" something look like? And why does it matter? Who is OP trying to please here?

YANBU.

You assessed the situation, realised you wouldn't be able to help and stayed out of the way, which is helping.

The last thing people need in a crisis is more people crowding around unnecessarily. I'm sure you were willing to answer a shout for help if the people already helping needed something.

If you're not actively helping, standing gawping doesn't help.

If I was the patient I wouldn't want extra people staring, and as a health professional, if you're not actively helping, being out of the way and not staring is helping.

I wouldn’t have continued working that’s just weird

Maybe as you say not rush over as already people were helping but to worry about your tight deadline in that situation is a bit weird and
showed complete lack of empathy

I’d probably avoid you after that if you were my colleague

In the interests of respect I would have paused working. I think that’s the issue your colleague has had with you rather than you going over

You didn’t know that she was going to survive you assumed .. you also made yourself unavailable and to continue typing on your PC whilst all that was going on is weird .