To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Maternity leave is not primarily about raising a child . It is about recovery of a human body that has literally grown 7-8lbs of human flesh out of its own resources. Babies don’t grow by magic. All resources come form the mothers body including her nutrients, calcium, iron etc. her body has to adapt to provide space - moving lungs, diaphragm .
Then the mothers body goes through enormous changes preparing for birth such as all ligaments loosening that can, in some cases, cause pelvis to literally split open.

the mother then can experience significant damage to normal function of reproductive, urological and digestive organs during birth- and if not carefully managed can experience incontinence later in life (way too common as nhs resources does shit job of this) .
And quite a lot of time she might have to have a c-section which is equivalent to a hysterectomy but without 8 weeks signed off work and people recognising she needs to be supported
then she should ( ideally and no dig at those who don’t or can’t) breastfeed a child for at least 6 months till weaned . Or even longer according to WHO. A breast fed child will grow form that 7-8lbs at birth to 30lb odds in that time ALL from the resources a mother provides- again there ain’t magic there- it comes form the womens body and not some sort of magic pipe direct form her stomach where she’s had her tea and into the babies mouth as milk in a passive way - she literally chemically manufacturers that milk.
add to that being up at night with major sleep disruption, not being able to go to loo without a wee one being omnipresent, hormonal changes that make 2 in 10 postnatelly depressed, and having society impose a myth of instinctive maternal bond which puts huge pressure to do this role with total self sacrifice and no moaning

sure, it’s a breeze…quite the relaxing time away from work to rest and recoup after a hard career.

🤦‍♀️

ps I went back to work at 6 months to have a break

Most sabbatical leave isn’t paid though, my work states you can’t take alternative employment while you’re not working at your ‘main’ job either, so it’s not a like for like comparison.

All due respect unless you have had a child you really don't understand. I didn't, I thought maternity leave would be like a holiday. Maternity leave is incredibly hard, looking after a child is much harder than being in work.

I do think extended periods of time off should be offered. Like a sabbatical

To add to this - agree with a poster above who said maternity leave is to benefit the baby, not the mother or father doing the caring.

All babies (people, including you) need round the clock care for the first year of their life. This is necessary for society to keep functioning.

You can argue there's a better way to provide this care than parental leave that companies pay for - but I don't understand how you argue you should have a paid-for six month holiday because you're not having children. You've already had that round the clock care as a baby, you've had your benefit entitlement...

Non-parents can also be carers and in the case of many single women more likely to be.

I would be campaigning for all companies to give properly paid carers leave over what the OP desires.

YABU Mat leave isn't 'time off' speak to a new mother or spend a day with them

Totally bonkers in my opinion. Employers shouldn't have to pay staff to travel ( as well as their replacement ) and I would totally resent my tax dollars being spent so people can travel and build 'their morale'.. there a million better ways to spend it in my opinion than to give healthy people 6 months off

I’m currently on maternity leave. I’ve loved every minute. The first month was really hard recovering from a C-Section and being knackered. But since then it’s been great. Much much better than work.
Dreading going back tbh.

also why have more than 1 baby if maternity leave is so awful?

the people comparing maternity leave to caring for a dying relative are shocking!
I cared for my dying dad.
Taking him to chemotherapy for 4 months for pancreatic cancer and going to baby massage for 9 months are miles apart for fucks sake! Yes sometimes it’s tiring caring for a baby but the enjoyment is immense. There was 0 enjoyment in caring for a man who is skin and bones and in agony whilst he dies slowly.

YANBU OP. People on this thread are batshit.

Having a baby, caring for that baby and into the toddler stage is not a holiday. It's bloody hard work and not some type of sabbatical. YABU

Would then those people who have taken the time off also get the downside of having children.

Would you also expect the same amount of parental leave as parents (mainly women) take to look after their sick child? How about the discrimination many women face having children and trying to get jobs? The fact that some women feel that they have to become SAHM because they cant afford childcare? Then trying to get back into the workforce

And while i will say, its not women all the time, the majority of it is

I am just wondering where you would stop it? You seem to want the time off, but not any of the downsides that go with having a child

You could become self-employed OP. Then you could have of whatever time you want.

You are being ridiculous.

Maternity leave is nothing remotely like taking time off for travel. Pregnancy and childbirth take an enormous toll on the body and the early weeks and months of caring for a newborn baby are exhausting. Women need the time off to recover and care for the baby, it's not a holiday.

The fact that some women choose to have a baby well that's just tough luck. They certainly don't choose to have the baby for the time off. There isn't anything equivalent unfortunately.

Would you also like the massive childcare bills once you're back from your break? Just to even things out....

I had to completely lose my career because of choice to have children. It was my choice, I agree to what you’d say, however please don’t compare pears to apples. Children need care, it’s not like I have a choice not to care. Women are significantly deprived of their opportunities if they dare to make a choice to become mothers, even those who have all the support in the world. So don’t try to win your holiday of a sleep deprived mother of a newborn. Maybe complain for a global change where people are not seen as numbers bringing profits and disposed of when they are not suitable enough anymore.

Yes, they can be. However carers leave (which I agree with you in that proper paid carers leave should be given) is something that is taken to actually do something - provide care. The leave that I'm talking about is time which can simply be taken to do anything family orientated - attend a sports day, a holiday, whatever. I do think that non parents should be able to avail of such a benefit.

I'm 51, never wanted or had children.

Maternity is to recover from gestating and giving birth it's also to raise a healthy and hopefully happy baby in its first year.

It's not a holiday and also seems to be bloody hard work.

If I need time off that's what annual leave or a sabbatical is for.

I think you're missing a big part of why paid maternity leave is offered - if the majority of men and women work, and there is no maternity leave, the birth rate would drop dramatically. Yes, some could still afford to do it, but many wouldn't. No matter how over-populated the planet seems, we need a steady birth rate or else we risk having an elderly population with no taxes to pay their pensions or social care, and not enough people to care for them.

Yes, companies offer enhanced packages, but that's to do with attracting talent. Bear in mind too that a good chunk of women who take maternity leave end up behind in their careers, "mummy-tracked", pensions lower from gaps in payments, or lower payments, etc.

Maybe your proposal would level them playing field for everyone. Or maybe the pay gap between men and women would simply get bigger.

Time off to go on holiday or travel is called annual leave.

Maternity leave isn't a holiday. It's time off to recover from pregnancy/birth, bond with your baby and raise it through infancy.

Most companies nowadays offer the most basic of mat leave packages so new mums often go back to work before they are ready or they suffer financially. I don't know why it is seen as a holiday as such, it is exhausting. I think being at work would actually be easier some days.

You could always ask to take a career break or sabbatical (both are unpaid) but offer a period of extended leave for travelling etc.

I took one 7/8 years ago for 3 months to travel to Australia.

Maybe your argument should be made for more annual leave/sabbatical opportunities for all working people after they’ve been at a company for x time, rather than ‘mothers get maternity leave so I should get time off too’.

When I went back to work it was rather like a holiday. I could do stuff like read the paper or eat at lunchtime and have a proper break. Even going to the loo by myself was amazing.

On maternity leave you’re working or on call at 1 seconds notice 24 hours a day. It’s not leisure time.

Oh give over. I don't agree with the OP, but having a child is also a choice (in countries where women have reproductive rights). No one has a child out of some altruistic desire to help society - you have them because you want them.

Why can you take 6 months off paid to look after a baby but not, say, to look after your elderly/dying parents?

I risk getting flamed for this (and, as a caveat, no - I don’t personally judge people’s worth by their economic contribution to society) - but….. Basically, each generation pays for the pensions of the people above it and the benefits for everyone in it. That’s what income tax does. And pensions are the biggest ever Ponzi scheme. There’s an economic imperative to keep women in the workforce for this end and also that the next generation of taxpayers comes through. That’s why maternity leave is treated differently.

Actually, paid time off to care for elderly relatives does make alot of sense, just as much sense as maternity leave in that society needs people to be carers. Time off for travel though that's not a benefit to society so it doesn't make sense for it to be paid.

Also I'm referring to businesses with maternity policies over and above SMP, not government funding.

But the government funds the first part of maternity/adoption leave, should they also fund the first part of any “I’d like to follow my bliss” leave?