To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Somewhat gobsmacked at your entitlement but also wanted to mention sabbaticals. I haven't read through everything I know bad me - but I always found the first year extraordinarily hard and it was as far from a 'holiday' that I could imagine. I'm sure plenty of others have made their feelings clear but you are acting incredibly entitled so unless your workplace needs you so much that they'd give you some paid time off I'd recommend you save up to take a year off OR alternatively change your expectations of lifestyle and do what gap year/travelling you people do. Finally there is a massive industry out there of older people who work whilst travelling and you should investigate that. Sorry if my post was too offish, but as someone who always got depressed after the birth of a child and the lack of sleep etc only compounded I do feel your perspectives of maternity leave are in a different universe. If you want to travel, you can, you may need to change your expectations however.

Of course, but the poster I was replying to specifically mentioned paying for another generations pensions.

Most won’t. Most children born today will not pay enough into the system to benefit anyone.

Some end up in prison, some end up homeless, some end up on a zero hours contract fiddling their pay to avoid child support payments.

It’s simply laughable for posters to claim their decision to have kids is a better one because those kids will benefit the OP or anyone else.

Those children add to the climate crisis, will more likely than not be a drain on the countries economy - so no, that argument doesn’t stack up

Sorry - shouldn't be penalised for it!

Thank you - well said!

Agreed.

They're helpful purely by being there and doing the jobs. Tax paid is a bit irrelevant. Paving the roads, wiping bums in nursing homes, ringing up your purchases, fixing your boiler...

I hear you ❤
I’d give anything to not have been left disabled & unable to ever work again from traumatic labour but i have my DD & she is healthy. She is my miracle i thought I would never have & I just make the best of whatever life I have left.
Horrible to think I’ll never be able to help my child pay for her wedding, 1st home, own my own home, have a decent pension, nice car, not worry about someone with no connection to the real world dictating whether I am entitled to support or not etc etc but I am alive & have done my bit for the perpetuation of the human race.
My future is very bleak but I have a future & I have a child I was told I would never have so I can’t really complain.

100% 😀

Tax paid isn’t irrelevant

as the poster I was replying to specifically mentioned her kids paying for the OPs pension.

Which is unlikely to be the case.

I can see your point but I think it would have to apply to men as well wouldn't it? Some firms will give sabbaticals, would that work?

Nice idea but most likely more women would be discriminated against. I’m not understanding why whether through choice or infertility that women feel that they should be entitled to some sort of paid leave, I can’t see how it would work. Would they need a drs note or wait for the menopause? My limited understanding of maternity allowance is that it is to ensure the woman has time to recover. In the USA there is no obligation for employers to give paid leave so here in the UK we’re very fortunate. Individual employers may introduce something that the OP enquires about but I can never seeing it introduced by the govt. as the UK annual leave entitlement is generous.

That's not what the OP meant.

However, that should be a justifiable reason

Finally there is a massive industry out there of older people who work whilst travelling and you should investigate that.

Please remember that there are also many older people who reach retirement age in poor health or are unable to afford to travel. Having the opportunity to do so while younger as part of a paid sabbatical would potentially benefit both the individual and their employer.

I fail to understand why it's only women you think should be provided extended paid holidays by their employer?
It certainly would be an attractive benefit a company could offer its staff were it so inclined. However it has nothing to do with the statutory obligations surrounding pregnancy and maternity leave.
Frankly I think trying to conflate the two simply highlights your ignorance on what pregnancy and child birth are actually like, as well as their importance to society and the economy.
But sure campaign for more paid holidays, good luck.

Lol YABU
Maternity leave isn't a holiday
I would love some paid time off to go traveling and studying to
You need to take a sabbatical
Or ask for additional paid holiday

@TheKeatingFive is your employer denying paid sick leave for such serious surgeries? Because you would definitely get signed off for a long period if you had had a heart transplant

I agree you with you, as a late and older parent who didn’t get any maternity because of being self employed I feel I didn’t get a great deal. I had to struggle as a parent both in terms of getting work and financially but in my 30’s I often (happily) supported my colleagues with parents and ended up doing 70 hour weeks. If I’d had more downtime I might have been able to think/action finding a partner/having children earlier. I remember someone who had has 3 children in a row being really affronted that I had been promoted but I worked bloody hard for that, helped others and it was her choice to have three! I think those without kids do get a bit of a raw deal but I also think Mums really struggle to balance it all and am hugely in favour of flexible working but it should be inclusive of other issues like the menopause etc.

I agree

another point - you only get full pay for a bit of that, and that full pay is not from your company, is statutory plus whatever your employer feels like paying you. So, not sure you’d be able to go on much of a holiday

Things like maternity leave were introduced in a large part to keep women engaged in the workplace. More worker bees for the economy. Maternity leave is no holiday.
A sabbatical is there for anyone to take.

@TheKeatingFive just realised I tagged the wrong poster!

#ZeldaWillTellYourFortune#
Yes that is true. But not my children! I bri g them up with values and pride. My son at 24 has his own business with 3 employees and the rest will follow suit. They will be given all they need as long as they study or work. The day they start sitting around doing nothing....they will be homeless. If you cant get a job-create one! Lots of things you can do as self employed. Like hair dressing and photography! I once workes for £1an hour while paying £2 for childcare. I still soent lots of time with my children as I wont put up with slavedrivers. But as a stepping stone to a better job...absolutely. I went on to get paid a lot more in my next job as they were so impressed. I bought my own home and I am teaching my children how they can achieve anything if they are grateful and hard working.

Agree that maternity isn’t ‘time off’ but would love a fully paid sabbatical of even 3 months. Not going to happen where I work! I’m not going to be having any maternity leave, but I do try to work hard towards being able to afford to go part time in the long term so I can do some of the things I’d like to.

I'm so sorry about your pain @Grrrrdarling .

@AMorningstar Hope this doesn't tarnish the rest of us without children. I don't agree with the OP. Maternity leave is to address an exceptional set of circumstances and the fact the mother is growing a human being.

The OP has repeatedly said she is referring to companies who pay enhanced maternity leave.

FFs do people not bother reading before posting anymore

So it is from the company she is referring to