To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Any approach possibly forcing people to lose their salary immediately on having a child is clearly a non-starter too.

Why? If you’ve had your time off you can’t have it again. It’s unlikely this scenario would occur if it was linked to long service.

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point

With my employer, you can. I have a colleague who took three months off earlier this year. I doubt it was paid though.

People who have kids are not doing anyone a favour though - people have kids because they want to, or think they should go through with a pregnancy. It isn't altruistic and the world is overpopulated already.

Maternity might not be a holiday, but it is a choice, an achievement, and (hopefully) a fulfilling experience that childfree/less people don't have.

So if everyone was entitled to take periods of extended leave then it levels the playing field, takes away any jealousy or feeling of unfairness so everyone gets the same opportunity to achieve the things that are important to them.

If your goal is a family, you use the time to have children. Other people might not have the same life goals and why shouldn't they be able to pursue them?

It is also not the population of the planet as a whole but where those people are that concern govts. Both in maternity and migration policies.

Also, if the world doesn't collapse in 30 years the UK will need new working people to come up.

They would have to take the time off when having children was no longer a possibility though (so at least after age 55).

I suggested this upthread but was told it would be discriminatory against parents.

So if everyone was entitled to take periods of extended leave then it levels the playing field, takes away any jealousy or feeling of unfairness so everyone gets the same opportunity to achieve the things that are important to them.

People with no kids (other things being equal) inevitably have more free time anyway. Evenings, holidays which aren't constrained by the needs of little ones.

If you could the equivalent of maternity leave without having to have the baby we would have a population crisis!
Imagine 6 months off on full pay (BTW many Mothers only get SMP even when they have an actual baby) without all the sleep deprivation, nappies, chapped nipples etc. Women all over would jump at the chance!
It might be a bit unfair if men only get 2 weeks in line with paternity leave though.
I do agree with PPs though, there should be better provision for people who need leave for other things like caring for relatives. SSP is also a massive joke in this country, nobody should be in a position where they diagnosed with a serious illness and their first thought is how they will pay the bills.

This is so patronising to those who can’t/don’t have children and I say this as someone who has children. Why do some parents think they’re automatically busier?

@ErrolTheDragon

They may have more childfree time, but that's not really the point of my 'argument'.

For some people a family is a priority, for others something else is, but having a family is the only priority that's actually funded in some way.

I imagine (although it looks like I might be wrong) that parents see creating a family as a life goal or achievement, much the same as I might see studying or travelling or binge watching Succession again

@Tommyrot I don't understand why? If everyone gets the same hypothetical extended leave over their working life, if kids are important to you then you should earmark some of that leave to have kids. If you have a partner, they should do the same.

(I feel a bit silly arguing this since it's something that's 100% never going to happen, but I quite like the notion!)

There speakers a woman who has never raised kids. It's not a holiday you know! It's sacrifice and hard work. I would have been on my current pay 20 years ago but I sacrificed many things so you would have someone to work for the day you don't have to!

For some women it’s hard work, myself and a fair few other posters on this chain were able to see it as a holiday!

Also it’s sad you sacrificed salary but many women these days don’t! I was even promoted on Mat leave so came back to a 20k payrise!

Oh do give over! You had children because you wanted them.

I am sure you would have felt the same if you had been able to children.

No I wouldn’t. I’d never make out that I’d had them for the good of society.

Why do some parents think they’re automatically busier?

That's why I said 'other things being equal'.

Urg, that was a bit garbled! My responses didn't link to @ErrolTheDragon and @Tommyrot !

It could help with the gender pay gap, if anyone could take extended time off work for any reason. Much the same as as equal parental leave could - a more realistic policy maybe (but not as much in it for the childfree!).

What things though? I’m extremely lucky that mine go to bed quite early without a fuss. Yes, I know this is pure luck! I have the entire evening to myself to sit on my arse, watch Netflix and eat chocolate. The house isn’t untidy or messy because we’ve all been out most of the day.

For some women it’s hard work, myself and a fair few other posters on this chain were able to see it as a holiday!

Lucky you - genuinely, I don't begrudge anyone having an easier time of it.

If you were treated the same way a high % of women are that have children you might regret your paid leave that you desire.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/509500/BIS-16-145-pregnancy-and-maternity-related-discrimination-and-disadvantage-summary.pdf
I’ve screenshot a couple of pertinent pages.

I'd love to have time to jet off around the world too, sadly I gave birth to the generation that will pay your pension instead ,🙄

Interesting thought but where would it end. Some people have one lot of Mat leave some have more. How many lots of 6 months would not pregnant people want?
nice idea though :-)

Surely if everyone was entitled to the same leave it should end this sort of discrimination and bad feeling though?

Do you know what I think that would only be fair. I say this as a mum who went from mvp to persona non grata overnight after getting pregnant btw. I think women could really use paid time off in the peri/menopause years. Maternity leave is of course not a baby holiday but at the same time I think other hormonal events should earn women some paid leave (and job protection) too!

But that’s the point

its silly for posters to say the OP is silly because it’s not a holiday.

When for some women it is, they don’t have long and painful recoveries and they also might have easy babies.

Some even have a lot of help and don’t really ‘need’ mat leave at all (am looking at my SIL who had 3 round the clock Nanny’s from when hers were born for the entire year of Mat leave) but they still get enhanced pay.

Also the Op was clear she was referring to employers who pay enhanced maternity leave, so for those employers a childless employee does cost less than one with kids so why shouldn’t a small pot be made available to them too?