To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Do you really not see the OPs point though.

put it this way, my company paid me £86,000 to not work and stay at home with my newborn for 9 months (I took the whole year but they only pay enhanced for 9). I spent a lot of this time traveling, having a lot of me time, even took a hairdressing course (thought it would save money on future children's hair cuts )

A childless person at my work wouldn’t be given this money for not working.

I’ve got 86k more than a childless person, just for having a baby.

The op was clear when she referred to enhanced leave. A childless person saves my company tens of thousands of pounds.

I was going to have three children but now decided I only want two. Can I then trade in my third maternity leave which I now don’t require for an extended holiday? (I think by the time my youngest reaches school age I’ll be in need of it)!

I agree, all workers should get time off for whatever pursuits are of value to them.

If it's travel, fine. If it's reproduction, fine. Whether one finds the physical, mental and financial tradeoffs worthwhile is up to one.

But separating citizens into first and second class by virtue of their reproductive status is not on in the 21st century. We are long past the days when adding to our species is a beneficial act.

Maybe so but we don't have children for the purpose of pleasing the government!

Getting pregnant is not always a choice, sadly. I won’t spell it out but yeah, in my line of work I’ve seen many cases like this. Really sad.

“Small amount of paid time off”…

You’re totally missing the arduous nature of growing a human, birthing a baby and recovering from the physical and emotional turmoil. Then there’s keeping the tiny human alive whilst surviving on very little sleep.

Yeah, not sure you fancying some sponsorship to travel is quite the same.

Going back to work after juggling toddler and newborn was a breeze. I still find it novel that the office is calm, peaceful. I can shit on my own and drink hot coffee. Living the dream 😂

This!

Worked in the nhs for nearly 40 years. I have no children. Everytime someone got pregnant, there was no replacement for staff on maternity/paternity leave. We non parents filled in the gap and did 2 people's jobs in their absence. The mothers who came back to work pregnant were the most demoralising, I don't dispute their right to do so. I personally experienced a colleague who had 3 children within 5 years, in a team of 3.

The (mainly) mothers expected and occasionally demanded their holiday requests, the non parents would work the Christmases, Easters etc so they could have time off with their children. They also found you very unreasonable for stating your case as to why this was unfair.

The mothers had all the managerial, understanding, flexible working and bent rules to meet their family needs.

I totally get the needs of parents and their children, it is right and proper that maternity/paternity rights and leave are provided. I also acknowledge that parenthood is without doubt incredibly tiring, and exhausting mentally and physically which doesn't end in the teens. But I also think that the people who keep the ship going in their absence should have their input acknowledged and respected too, while also respecting that non parents have lives and demands outside of work too.

I don't know what the answer is but for some of us, there is another side to this story.

I wish it was only every 3 hours for 30
Mins. I spent the best part of the first 4-6 months tapper under a baby with a tit in its mouth and pump attached to the other tit!

I’ve got 86k more than a childless person, just for having a baby.

@MeganCrossing how has that worked out? I concede that maths is not my strong suit… but I certainly didn’t end up with more money than my child free colleagues. Pretty sure it was less, by quite a lot! Maybe I’m in the wrong line of work.
Or is this the money you’ve saved on haircuts?

I think some of the non parents on here have a very deluded rose tinted view of pregnancy/maternity/parenthood and are absolutely deluded if they think parents then get an easy ride.
Careers and lives always take a back seat. Of course its a choice but without children there will be no adults in the future to pay for everything and wipe your arse in the care home.

Say someone has done their 5 or 10
Qualifying years. What would stop them coming back and then getting pregnant and going on mat leave?

i wonder how many of these ‘doing my bit for society’ women’s first thoughts when little Timmy popped out was of paying someone else’s pension in the future 😂

People complaining maternity leave is hard, yes it is but it's a choice! Holidays are enjoyable so should be encouraged more than having a baby which can be detrimental to wellbeing at least temporarily.

I can see the OPs point that she's paid all this tax for her whole career but not getting extended time off. I don't think maternity type leave is the answer but long service holiday like they do in Oz is a great scheme.

I got paid not to work.

If they wanted the same amount of leave as I did they’d have to be unpaid for the 9 months.

Thats what I’m referring to.

Childless people save the company money, especially when you consider cover for parental leave.

I’m childless. By that I mean I haven’t been able to have children which is usually what it means (as opposed to childfree where one makes the perfectly reasonable choice not to have them).
I’d have given anything to have gone through the horrors of childbirth and maternity leave and parenting that people describe.

Statistically in the UK at least 1 in 5 women never become mothers, the majority not by choice.
I understand people getting annoyed about this, especially if you’ve never really thought about what it might mean not to have children, for whatever reason, and especially if you resent things you have missed out on or find parenting difficult.

Whatever you think about the post, it’s a shame there’s so much mud-slinging here against women who don’t have children. We do get discriminated against in our still patriarchal society, please try to have some empathy and open your eyes. We’re all doing our best and sometimes after years and years grinding away and making different sacrifices and feeling generally misunderstood it does feel like it would be nice to have a change of some sort in life and to be recognised. Maybe this is what the OP is getting at.

I don’t think women specifically should get time off for a sabbatical - maybe everyone should or we should all of us (whatever gender and regardless of parental status) get a pot of money to spend as we wish or something. But it’s not going to be funded in the current economic climate! I do agree that Mat leave is different to a sabbatical. But it’s still a privilege and it would be nice if people were sensitive to that. Some find it easy, I know for others it’s anything but. I’ll never know what my hoped for mat leave would have been like.

I think women should try to stand together a bit more. Whatever the choices we have made, or not been able to make. That’s all. Maybe the OP didn’t come across that way either but please don’t lay into everyone who doesn’t have kids. Appreciate the honesty and thoughtful responses of some of the mothers on here though.

You are conflating two issues: maternity and paid holiday leave.

Long service or a sabbatical definitely would be an amazing benefit. But it should be available to all, including those who have taken parental leave.as it is a separate topic.

Wholeheartedly agree with @Pickledhen and @BoofyBoo.

Sorry but women or men that want to travel can do that with unpaid leave as I have done and others do . Comparing it with maternity leave ( that even at 6 months full would is absolutely nothing ) is absolutely ridiculous.
Those talking about overpopulation, stop being silly , the planet is not overpopulated, it’s just demographically badly distributed and yes people who have children are actually helping maintain what you know as society . Unless you completely live in the fringes if society , those children will benefit you too .

This is where I love the Australian system of long service leave. After 10 years of continuous employment with a company you get a chunk of additional leave. My company's award is 2 months (8.6 weeks).

You just have to avoid changing companies to become entitled to it.

Also get mid service leave (from 7 years into 10th anniversary) of 1 additional week that has to be taken in that year.

Our sick leave is 2 weeks a year for the first 2 years and 12 days from 3 years onwards. It accumulates and can be used as carer's leave as well, so I can use it to take my DM for medical appointments.

Exactly this - having children is a CHOICE! the CHOICE not to breed should also be respected and rewarded.

It already is. Childfree adults have generally more money and more free time. One of the most vulnerable categories overall is single mothers. But hey, they had mat leave, that's so unfair on people who don't have kids. /sarcasm

No, but it is the job of the government to have policies in place to encourage it. Look at countries with aging demographics, like Japan, where lifestyles actively make parenthood a choice.

Companies only bolster parental leave to a) fulfill their legal duties and b) be competitive for talent in the job market. They don't do it for kindness.

Maternity leave isn't a holiday to go on a jolly.

Me too. Good posts by both!

Childfree people have allocated their money and their free time differently -- as everyone is free to do.

Insinuating that we have a net advantage over the childed, as though some higher power has magically given us "more money and time" is absurd.

Everyone had the same lifestyle choices and everyone has the same 24 hours in the day. Rewarding some choices and not others is discriminatory.