To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

And the downside of your argument is that it's very different dealing with this in your early twenties than it is having it for 40+ years throughout your entire career.

This pretty much sums it up. Life isn't fair, you can't make everything equal in every single situation.

We know why the OP compared it to maternity leave - very clever way to garner attention and debate. The OP knows it's not relevant or comparable but clearly needed to use something controversial to kick start their thread.

This!

In Australia, most salaried jobs get long service leave, which starts to accrue at the rate of 0.866 of a week after 60 continuous weeks in the job. It kicks in at the seventh year when you suddenly have 6.1 weeks of LSL. and continues at the same rate until you leave.
You can take it as paid, half-pay or unpaid, and it lumps, not all at once. You have to agree dates with your employe]r well in advance. While you are on LSL, you are still accruing more LSL.

The best bit is when you retire, you get any unused LSL back, either lump sum or expressed as pay, so I had four months of paid leave ( still accruing more LSL) after I left my job, before retirement kicked in.

if it can be done in Australia, I see no reason why it can't be done in the UK.
It's bloody brilliant and meant as a teacher I could extend the two-week breaks to have a longer holiday.

Yes, teachers can and do go on holiday during the term

Why does everyone keep saying it's a choice? Not all babies are planned - and not all women realise they're pregnant until they're over the abortion limit.

So having a baby isn't always a choice. And the leave is for the benefit of the baby's life, not the mother or father's

The OP has already benefited from someone providing round the clock care for them as a baby

I don't think the parents on leave are benefiting at all really - at a society level, their baby is the one benefiting

@KKimberleyClark no, because it was A JOKE

This! I had a baby screaming relentlessly for 7 months and appalling sleep deprivation as he screamed, not slept. It was reflux so I was covered in puke for seven months too.
If you want things to be fair, take 6 months off doing this OP!

Well being at home with your kids ain't a holiday - that's for damn sure. It's work, whether paid or otherwise and you can never realise that until you actually go through it. And furthermore,.it's a never ending job and you certainly don't get sick days or a piss in peace or even a drink while it's hot.....for years....... And no it's not so bad and lovely to be a mum but it's not an easy slog by any means.

Yes and maybe some sick pay because all those pesky ill and/or disabled people get it. And what about bereavement pay. Really unfair that your partner hasn't died so you can't claim that.

Maternity/paternity pay is not a perk. It's time off to recover and bond with your child. Also a lot of people get statutory pay so like £150 a week. Can you go travelling on that?

Interesting that some countries do have paid sabbaticals and that some industries in the UK do too.

I think the comparison to enhanced maternity leave is fair personally, as the proposal is not looking at taking more from businesses or the system but rather taking what hasn't otherwise been claimed.

It's surprising how much venom there is pointed to some of the PPs mentioning that maternity leave wasn't as bad as others have experienced - I'm not sure there's any need to be so defensive when discussing a hypothetical concept.

My point is however hard maternity is, it is a choice and if others choose not to draw down on this, they should be able to take some one-off time for whatever they do choose to do.

@Playfair

In answer to the questions about how it'd be funded - by exactly the same mechanism as if those women had a baby, obviously!

But the government fund most of maternity leave, so are you suggesting they should fund this? They find maternity leave as it has a benefit to society. We need children to be born, to keep society going. Who else is going to be running care homes and working to put pensions when you’ve retired? The women having children are doing society a favour by keeping it running, it’d all collapse if people stopped having children. So surely those women should also be entitled to this paid leave as well, as their maternity leave is a service to society.

As I said out of our NCT group only 2 had tough babies and didn’t enjoy their Mat leave. Same applies to friends with kids who are a bit older than mine.

It’s only on here people seem to ham up how bad it is

Firstly, you sound lovely😳

Secondly, I didnt have tough mat leaves by any stretch. But they were all focused around needs of tiny, helpless babies. It wasn't 'me time' at all. Maybe baby cinema once a fortnight, but there are much easier ways to see films, let me assure you

Oh dear. Maternity leave definitely isn’t a wee holiday love. You’re like an adult baby who doesn’t actually understand the world 🤦🏼‍♀️

"Having kids is some posters only achievement " something a bitter childless person would say 🙄. I'm proud my body was capable of something incredible and I'm a great mum and my child is amazing. But I'm also proud of my medical career amongst many other things, thanks 😊

I have a few child-free friends and this is the kind of stuff they come out with; they feel like they're owed something as they haven't used up resources allocated to mums and children. As an example, a (very well off) friend insists on her GP prescribing her paracetamol rather than paying for it herself as she 'doesn't use up her NHS allocation like others do', i.e. us mums who have had the audacity to seek maternity care funded by the tax payer like her.
To be fair I might have felt similarly before I had kids and now I know better. I did actually take a sabbatical in my 30s to travel - unpaid leave as it happens - and it was in no way comparable to the time off for both my maternity leaves. I remember spending months breastfeeding my son in the dark with white noise blasting as he was so distracted so I barely left the house. Not quite the same as partying in Koh Samui.

I do know someone who managed to wangle a paid sabbatical to go travelling for 6 months. Companies willing to do that are very rare though.

society has decided that maternity leave is a societal and economic good otherwise it wouldn’t happen. Paid sabbaticals to go travelling just aren’t really the same. You have options to take unpaid leave for travelling in the same way I’d need to if I wanted some extra time off. You’ve got many more options as someone without dependents to take financial risks.

No I specifically referenced enhanced and reiterated this up thread.

I agree with your point about the need to maintain birth rates and again mention this in my OP.

Good for you? I guess

Mine was a lot of me time, and traveling, made the most of having such a long time off personally.

"I haven't lost anyone in my family and nobody has any terminal illness but I think I should be able to request paid compassionate leave because I haven't used it before"

No I got it. It was still in bad taste.

I thought that silly whoosh comment had died a death years ago.

Wow and you're absolutely foul to say that to them. Says a lot about the type of person you are.

Is there a reason why PP keep stating that "maternity isn't a holiday" in attempt to insinuate I've said it is? Is it to try to make your argument sound more valid?

Propose a sabbatical. I had one a few years ago for 6 weeks. Spent time with my kids/parents/travelled a little/ was bloody amazing.

YANBU to want paid sabbatical leave (in my country they have job alteration leave when you can take a sabbatical for 100-180 days and get unemployment benefits, related to your earnings, for that time and the company hires an unemployed person for that time) but YABU to compare it to maternity leave

I had 6 weeks mat leave, of which I worked part time for 3 as I run a company. It was still much easier then full time work and I fully agree that everyone should be entitled to the same funding whatever their life choices are. Maybe it's something everyone can take twice in their life, if that means it needs to be less generous for women who have recently given birth then that doesn't seem unfair to me.