To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Ok, so then what happens? Days old baby goes to nursery and mother back to work? Mother loses job? What actually happens that you think makes sense?

You can go ahead and campaign for it by all means - you’re probably not the first to try! But paid maternity leave is seen as quite an essential thing by an overwhelming amount of countries - and although there is still quite some way to go with it, I’m always surprised at how wide spread it is, even in countries not exactly famous for their women’s rights - and I think you need to have some good grown up thinking time as to why that is. And how that then compares to your reasoning behind people needing extended paid time off to go and play scrabble or whatever hobby of choice.
You quite frankly sound like one of my teens that were trying to argue they should be paid to go to school because it’s ‘like work’ 😂 School is not a ‘job’ because you have to do it. Maternity leave is not time off because don’t have to do it.

But……… being on maternity leave is not idle time spent as free as a bird, doing exactly as you would wish. It’s hard, hard work. Many women actually find returning to work easier than staying at home with a baby. Yes it’s a choice they made but it certainly ain’t the easier choice IMHO. Being at work was a walk in the park compared to being a mum. For me, anyway. I ached to be back at work after the birth of my first son. And I bet lots of women feel the same

Taking time off to go travelling as per your example is not comparable with the sacrifice of the same amount of time spent raising a child. The point is, the premise of the argument that all women should be allocated time off in equal measure suggests that being on maternity leave is a blast & preferable to being at work. It’s not.

It's horrible and also highly illegal how your employer treated you.

However, you were discriminated against not because you are a childless, but because you had a cancer.

I believe this is disability discrimination (correct me if I'm wrong?) and I hope you took steps against your employer.

Most companies have a sabbatical policy to use for something like this. Also most companies are sympathetic if you need to take time off to care for someone, even if it isn’t a child (say an elderly parent etc.)

Having taken mat leave twice I can promise you that it isn’t a “holiday” !! It is a full time job keeping someone alive 24/7, you very very rarely get anytime to yourself, you are often physically recovering from any number of medical interventions and you are often getting zero sleep. It’s rewarding but it’s absolutely exhausting. It would literally be like being paid by your company to go and do another job for a year. It most definitely isn’t a holiday and a good portion of it can be a total endurance test.

@Asher33
so do we have to stop free medical care for those who got STD after having sex? It was their choice to have sex, shall all collectively ask for an equivalent of a sick leave who got sick following their life choices? Because some people make choice not to have sex.

It’s called a sabbatical or career break, enjoy!

In Australia teachers can take one year off every five years and get four years salary spread over that five.

This sounds great but is this the same Australia that doesn't have any paid maternity leave at all. Or at least didn't when a relative of mine was starting a family. Happy to be corrected if it has improved now.

I assume they had so much trouble keeping teachers that they had to put this in place to solve the problem. Not that it was out of the goodness of their hearts. (And if used for maternity, it's still unpaid... .)

Don't be ridiculous maternity leave isn't a holiday, and other peoples children will be paying your pension , suppporting the economy and providing you with medical and nursing care in your old age.
You can't also expect a paid jolly!

Plenty of women do welcome the opportunity to have some time out of the work place and a change of lifestyle. I read often enough on here about women who’ve been on maternity leave and don’t want to go back to work.

Why just women? Why, if their bodies are not recovering from a major physical trauma and they didn't have a tiny infant dependent on them, particularly if breastfeeding, should women receive a 6-month paid sabbatical if men don't?

The question of a more equal weighting of the later maternity/paternity leave - that is, extending beyond the first few weeks - for parents who wish to structure it other than in the conventional way is an important one, but at present, an aside. In my organization you can buy additional annual leave if yours runs out; in other, similar professions there might be a similar scheme. There's no reason why it should be provided on full pay and at great expense to employers (there are strikes all over the country at present because pay and conditions are already dire).

Are people determined to make women unemployable? With all the constant setbacks associated with being of childbearing age, they're now touting the idea of special dispensation for periods, and are now even starting on the menopause. If women are starting to relax once they reach a 'certain age', thinking they'll be free of all the discriminatory BS that comes along with their biology, it appears they can now think again.

It is never ending. Monthly bleeding and even a few hormones flying around (or depletion thereof) doesn't make us incapable of carrying out our work. We are not helpless little wallflowers. And I know a thing or two about painful periods. I've suffered almost all my life with severe endometriosis.

As if achieving equal treatment in the workplace hasn't already been enough of an uphill slog for women. We are still nowhere near achieving it, and if silly ideas like this are adopted it's doubtful we ever will.

It’s not awful for most people. Especially when f you have a Spring baby.

I’m not sure this is the logical thought process you think it is

Maternity and paternity leave costs money. It costs the government and it costs businesses so it also costs consumers. There is an overall benefit to society to those costs being met when it’s about productive working people continuing the human race. There is no benefit to society in paying people to have time off just for jollies.

I’d be happy to see ten years continuous service to one employer come with the right to six months unpaid time off for everyone though.

Yes OP and actually thinking about it why do people with chronic conditions get so much time and I don’t just because I’m healthy?
Someone who has a long term illness (which may after all have been caused by themselves indirectly via an unhealthy life style or smoking) has weeks and months off.
Just because I am healthy and have taken care of myself does that mean I’m not able to take the same time for a holiday or travelling?
Literally OP this is how bloody ridiculous you sound.
A baby is like an atomic bomb going off in your life and body. You as a person are never ever the same ever again.
Its not just time to swan about thinking about travelling or whatever.
Babies need to be born and mothers need to adjust and recover. It’s vital to have time off to do that.
Having extended time for leisure when you’ve done fuck all isn’t.

For some it is a holiday

plus it’s silly to think children born today will be paying towards anyone’s pensions. By the time those under 40 retire there will be no state pension.

Who’s going to keep the workplace going while everyone’s off on their jollies? You think this would work in the NHS, all of the surgeons going off for 6 months?

What an awful post.

Why does everyone keep making out having a baby is awful and maternity leave hellish?

If it were that bad then 99% of women would stop at 1 child.

I for one am currently on mat loving every minute! If I could afford to get pregnant again now I would.

chunky baby thighs and newborn cuddles. The baby delicious baby smell. Baby belly laughs and cuddles at midnight with a box set.

I love it, really truly do. I know I’m not alone in that or the world wouldn’t be so populated and most people wouldn’t have more than one.

If it was the choice between this and travelling the world I’d choose this every time.

So no OP YANBU. I would be more than happy for childfree people to have paid leave instead of maternity if that’s what’s they chose.

I don’t think I’d be missing out in choosing to have a snuggly baby over a holiday/travel.

So let everyone have 2 lots of paid 6-9 months off work over their working life. If they choose to use that for babies, caring for relatives or travelling it’s up to them.

people who choose to use it on having babies wouldn’t be ‘missing out’, the same way those who choose to use it for travel wouldn’t be ‘missing out’.

Im sorry so many on this thread seem to hate motherhood/maternity leave so much and liken it to being sick. I truly am. I say this as someone who had a difficult pregnancy and emergency c-section.

I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to get at.

I’m merely agreeing with the OP, and disagreeing with those saying maternity leave isn’t a walk in the park.

Mine was essentially a 12 month holiday, so I can understand where the OP is coming from.

I’m 54 and that’s all that was said to me as a kid. When you retire there won’t be a state pension. You have no idea what there will or won’t be in 50 years.

Because for many on this site having children is their only achievement so they need to make it sound a lot harder than it is.

No one is saying maternity leave is awful or motherhood is something we resent.

We're saying that being paid £156 a week (because that's all the state pays - take it up with private companies if you want to whine about unfairness) to provide round the clock care for a totally dependent, relentlessly demanding human is NOT akin to a paid holiday. While recovering from physical trauma and potentially major surgery, sleep deprived, breastfeeding... and clearly judged and resented by much of society. Then after that, more often than not you get to earn less while paying up to tens of thousands of pounds each year in childcare fees.

It's just stupid, ignorant and irritating to compare the two.

But you understand that for the vast majority of mums it’s not like that. Esp first time mums?

Considering the government now make people pay into a private pension, it’s a bit silly to think there isn’t a reason behind that.

I can almost guarantee when I retire there will be no state pension.