People are fine with being disrespectful to Christians

[Flymetothezoom]

At a church playgroup. The people who run it are very devout Christians. I am taken aback, by the number of parents, who thought it was appropriate to bring their kids to the church dressed for Halloween. Kids are dressed as witches, goblins, skeletons, creepy pumpkins etc..
The church holds a light party every year on Halloween and is very clear that they do not endorse Halloween.

@OneTC Really?

Yes, that's why I asked the question. Do you have a problem with my asking for information?

Oh dear, you've fallen foul of Muprhy's Law (yes, that is what I mean, not Murphy's; it's easily looked up) of criticising people's spelling/grammar.

I didn't suggest you misrepresented the position of the Catholic Church. I suggested that you were ALSO expressing your own position (because you said 'I gave my opinion and the Catholic stance').

Disappointing not to hear your thoughts on the other matter. But hey ho.

I have to say that when I first started looking at how men differ from women in ways that put them closer to God, and able to transmit from Him to us, I really couldn't find anything in biology, psychology - anything obvious. It never occurred to me that it was what women had, as Powder has written, that was the important thing.
I have to admit that I originally came to the concept of priesthood from church which didn't have it. I was Congregationalist (it's now subsumed into the URC), and the minister was supposed to be first among equals, and it was the congregation as a whole that enabled Christ to be present at Communion, which was a memorial not a re-offering of sacrifice. We had had women ministers for some time. It was the text about "where two or three are gathered in my name" which was the foundation belief. And an intention to be close to the early church. Which was Jewish. And wanted people to be in direct communication with God, with no intermediaries, no priests, no bishops (especially no bishops), no Pope, no saints.... A bit Jewish.
Trying to understand priesthood was - interesting.
Especially when being supposed channels of the Holy Spirit didn't, and doesn't, stop some of the ordained from being unholy.

I’m not sure that constitutes a rebuttal.

@WalkingOnTheCracks I’m not sure that constitutes a rebuttal.

Maybe it isn't but it's a valid point.🙂

It does strike me that Christians being offended by people dressing as witches is quite ironic, given that they were the ones erroneously burning hundreds of women alive once they'd falsely accused them of witchcraft.

I'd think the 'witches' should be more afraid of the church than vice versa.

It isn't about Christians being offended it is about people having a right to say "not in my home/place of worship." I'm Catholic, I don't celebrate Halloween but it doesn't bother me, it does bother others.

If I went to an Eid celebration I wouldn't take a bottle of whisky as a gift for the Imam, if I went to a Hanukah party and the hostess asked everyone to bring some food I wouldn't take hotdogs with pork sausages. In my book there's nothing wrong with celebrating halloween even though I don't, there's nothing wrong with a bottle of whisky even though I'm teetotal, and I love a hotdog but I would never want to be so rude as to offend someone by ignoring their boundaries on their property.

Entirely this

Are you responding to the correct post? I’m pretty sure I didn’t say “most persecuted”. Why would you intentionally twist my words? That’s rather silly.

There’s no one faith that it the “most persecuted”. How odd.

“This may strike some as unfair, but realize that God has given women other gifts that he has not given to men. For example, women bring the body of Christ (souls) into the world one birth at a time.“

I hope he kept the receipt then.

Well, not being of the opinion that any particular god ‘gave us’ anything, I do tend to believe that it is for the individual to decide their life path, rather than have it prescribed to them.

As far as pornography goes, aside from being dubious of the claim that it is THE most patriarchal and misogynistic industry, it is a recent one (at least in current form), whereas religious abuses date back centuries, if not millennia. For the most part porn isn’t something that people use to dictate how people should live, and It also tends to be perceived as enjoyable, untethered from shame and threats of eternal damnation if one doesn’t partake. All things it has over the church

And what does OP organising children’s toddler group have to do with burning witches?

Sure, but were those boundaries clearly stated? Given that a lot of churches have no problem with Halloween, and in fact have held events to celebrate it (not light parties), it wouldn’t occur to a lot of people that dressing up in Halloween costume to attend a church playgroup would be in any way an issue.

Ive never heard of a light party. I think that's not terribly mainstream.

Children of 2/3/4 are terrifically unlikely to understand you have a different, not widely known celebration, on halloween when everything around them is advertising halloween.

Halloween isnt "dark" its associated with rituals around death and remembrance. I find its only extreme/evangelical branches of Christianity are bothered by it.

I live in an area that has several options for light parties. It’s been the same for years.
I’ve just had a quick look on Eventbrite and there are (would’ve been) plenty of options.

It affects Catholic men as well. I'm Catholic and I'm a bit old fashioned and I like tradition, I loved the Latin mass and don't find mass in the vernacular the same, when we had a new priest join our parish when he moved from the C of E I found it very weird to kneel next to his wife and children for Communion. Things change and we have to accept it.

My husband was also baptised and brought up a Catholic, he decided to leave the church when our daughter was born. He decided that if the Church had decided that this perfect little girl could never aspire to being the Pope he didn't want the church. I don't think she ever felt she had a vocation to be a priest let alone the Pope but that mattered to him. He is still a Christian but doesn't go to church unless it is for a baptism/marriage/funeral. Our children's baptisms were quite stressful for the priest as well as me.

@ancientgran when I was little our village church held a Halloween party every year. Our current village church hold a special children's service where they all come in costume on the nearest Sunday.

So your equivalence of gifting booze to an imam or bringing hot dogs to a synagogue is obviously a false one. As evidenced by this thread, many Christians don't ascribe to Halloween as being anything other than a fun celebration of our history.

If that church in the OPs description made it clear it was not accepting of 'scary' costumes then fine. But it doesn't sound like they did. So why would anyone make that assumption?

Yes I said earlier in the thread that it should be made clear to the parents but if it is made clear then they should respect that.

Reading a lot of posts on here it seems some people think the church has no right to have boundaries on what happens on their property. I would be shocked if my church allowed a pagan service in the church, I've got nothing against pagans and I used to work in a town where there were many pagans and I had no issue with them, why would I, but I don't think a pagan service on church premises would be appropriate and I think the church, which is made up of people, should have the right to say that. If any group has a property I think they are entitled to say what happens there.

In a town I know there was uproar a few years ago when a cross was removed from the chapel at the local crematorium. Christians were going to have to use portable symbols of their religion just like other religions had to as it was decided that it was not appropriate for those religions to have to conduct their services under a cross. As a council facility I thought that was perfectly reasonable, I even had words with a priest about it but if someone suggested we couldn't have a cross or crucifix in my church I would not support that.

He decided that if the Church had decided that this perfect little girl could never aspire to being the Pope he didn't want the church. I don't think she ever felt she had a vocation to be a priest let alone the Pope but that mattered to him.

Complete thread derail 😀But that's also an argument for republicanism

No you misunderstand. I'm saying each church or denomination has a right to make the decision. The fact that your church, and mine, is fine with halloweeen does not mean that every Christian church has to do the same. The equivalence with the whisky and the Imam is if you are going to a light party (I'd never heard of them till this thread) and are aware that halloween costumes aren't welcome then they aren't appropriate just like the whisky in the mosque.

Christian denominations don't all have exactly the same beliefs and practices, my church doesn't have women priests but others do, in my church I go to confession (now seems to be Sacrament of Reconciliation but I'm old and to me it is confession) and get absolution but other Christian churches don't do the same. I can no more insist that all churches do the same as mine than you can.

But a woman can be sovereign and it isn't inherently sexist as my son couldn't aspire to be sovereign any more than his sister could (although I suppose she could aspire to be Queen Consort.)

But yes not really relevant to the thread.

But a woman can be sovereign

Your daughter can't.

Oh, I agree. If it’s been made clear then it would be unreasonable for that to be ignored. The problem is that churches don’t speak with one unified voice on this issue, not even within the same denomination.

I doubt anyone that attended the playgroup at OP’s church intended disrespect, rather than it just not occurring to them that wearing Halloween costume would be a problem (as for many churches it isn’t one).

Here’s one I found after a quick google. The Omen screened on Halloween at All Saints Church in Fulham, which appears to be Catholic. Incidentally, part of the movie was actually filmed there.

nen.press/2022/10/30/britains-ev-friendly-horror-movie-road-trip/

I completely understand your husband’s sentiment on this.

Imagine being a woman who was keen to develop her career, to progress, to give it her all to a company, an organisation, that stipulates that no matter how able, how devoted, how capable she was, however many hours she put into this role, she would never, ever, be able to become the CEO of that company, never ever be able to climb that ladder for the sole reason that she was a woman, and that that leadership would always go to a man, regardless of whether or not that man was capable, because he was a man. What woman, in her right mind, would stay working at such a company with no recourse to career advancement, ever?

Can you imagine the uproar and the repercussions of such a policy in the real working world? The tribunals and payouts for such clearly sexist and misogynistic work policies? It wouldn’t fly, so why do we allow it and perpetuate it when it comes to religious practice? Why do we teach our daughters that they are just not as good enough as their brothers, and the other men in their lives? Because ultimately, that is the message with this. And some woman don’t want to be mothers, they want to be those CEOs, and yet just because a bunch of self appointed holy men and the bible “say so”, doesn’t make it right. Cognitive dissonance.

Imagine being a woman who was keen to develop her career, to progress, to give it her all to a company, an organisation, that stipulates that no matter how able, how devoted, how capable she was, however many hours she put into this role, she would never, ever, be able to become the CEO of that company, never ever be able to climb that ladder for the sole reason that she was a woman, and that that leadership would always go to a man, regardless of whether or not that man was capable, because he was a man.

Not really sure you need to imagine that.