People are fine with being disrespectful to Christians

[Flymetothezoom]

At a church playgroup. The people who run it are very devout Christians. I am taken aback, by the number of parents, who thought it was appropriate to bring their kids to the church dressed for Halloween. Kids are dressed as witches, goblins, skeletons, creepy pumpkins etc..
The church holds a light party every year on Halloween and is very clear that they do not endorse Halloween.

@pointythings "The whole point about being an atheist is accepting that there are things we do not and cannot know, mostly because we do not yet have the scientific/technological means to explain them."

That sounds more like Agnostic to me. someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, if a god exists:

"Atheism is all about the deities and not believing in them"
That sounds like an oxymoron to me.

"You're assuming we are all hardcore and without spirituality -"

Speaking purely for myself, I don’t really know what the word 'spirituality' means outside an explicitly faith based context. So I don't understand what you mean by 'spiritual' in any other context?

So I'm non the wiser.🤔

@FlamingoRoad I see atheism as a faith position (and yes, I know lots of atheists will disagree with me on this). So put simply: I do not believe in a deity or deities. That is my leap of faith, if you will. I take immense comfort from my belief that there isn't a god. Do I think there might be such things as ghosts, life forms which are not corporeal or carbon based etc.? I don't know. I'm comfortable with not knowing.

The meaning of the term 'spirituality' has changed considerably over time and is now no longer exclusively linked to the realm of religious faith. Language and meaning evolve.

But why should there be one understanding of it? There's a million different schisms, it's not like all Christians are on the same page on some really important social issues. An aversion to dressing up doesn't seem that far off course considering that certain denominations and subgroups have defined dress codes

You're not what I would call an atheist

You're not what I would call an atheist

That doesn't really matter, does it?

No, but it puts a slightly different slant on most of what you've written. Not in a bad way, or saying that you've been deceptive, but knowing that you hold atheism as a position of faith does change my understanding a bit

@FlamingoRoad

Athiests reject religion and the rediculous notion that Earth and all life was created by magical beings in the sky. Atheists accept the scientific irrefutable proof where earth and it's creation is concerned.

The discussion of "the other", as you've called it, has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Several sciences research the "paranormal" and the unexplained. That is what science does. Religion is concept created by humans to explain that which we did or do not understand.

I, as an athiest, want to understand the world. Not just fob off the bad as a act of god or punishment from the (non existant) sick bastard. Or the good I have earned and worked for as a gift from someone else. Or the amazing and wonderful as a magic miracle.

Stephen Fry in 2 and a 1/2 minutes says all you need to consider when asked "What if God is real?".

*ridiculous

@FlamingoRoad for me it's actually very simple. I consider atheism to be a faith position because I cannot prove that there is no god. Religion is also a faith position because theists cannot prove that there is. (Though a lot of them seem to think that they can, but only without using the kind of methodology used by science). Apart from that, everything @ForTheLoveOfSleep has said.

Some atheists get really vexed about being invited to religious events - almost as if they are afraid of (as I've heard it put) "catching god".

As far as I am concerned, churches are merely buildings. Vicars and their ilk are merely people. And <insert specific occasion> is merely a bit of ritualised nonsense.

I always thought there were various categories

Gnostic Theist - Believes in God and thinks it's possible to know/prove they exist

Agnostic Theist - Believes in God but doesn't think it's possible to prove the existence

Gnostic Atheist - Does not believe in a God and thinks we can know/prove that one doesn't exist

Agnostic Atheist - Does not believe in God but thinks this is an impossible position to prove

Agnostic Agnostic - Simply doesn't believe anything either way, nor thinks it's possible to ever know

@Eindaira I like that list. It makes me an Agnostic Atheist. I'm comfortable with that.

@SerendipityJane I have no trouble with religious events. I get annoyed at the way there nearly always seems to be a bit about how we should feel sorry for the poor unbelievers because they must be so miserable not knowing God, but that's because it is so utterly patronising.

The last religious event I went to was lovely, didn't have that bit in it at all, was warm and inclusive. Really restored my faith in human nature.

@Eindaira " I always thought there were various categories

Gnostic Theist - Believes in God and thinks it's possible to know/prove they exist
Agnostic Theist - Believes in God but doesn't think it's possible to prove the existence
Gnostic Atheist - Does not believe in a God and thinks we can know/prove that one doesn't exist
Agnostic Atheist - Does not believe in God but thinks this is an impossible position to prove
Agnostic Agnostic - Simply doesn't believe anything either way, nor thinks it's possible to ever know"

Now my brain hurts 🙃

@ReneBumsWombats That's great, I'll look into it more and you've inspired me to start a thread! Had no idea about the Barbi thing. <backs away to clutch pearls>

Double set, yours for £48.55. A fair price, considering the miniature crafting involved.

(Barbie) There's no denying the craftsmanship Rene. 😂

It did the same to me when I first read about them.

Essentially it splits it into two parts:

Do you believe a God exists? Theist/Atheist/Agnostic

Do you think it's possible to ever know or prove the existence/non-existence of a God? Gnostic/Agnostic

I think you can believe a God exists (Theist) through your faith but also think that we can't have true knowledge/proof of his existence (Agnostic Theist) for example

You can be very spiritual without god, without religion. Feeling connected to the other people and the world around you. Learning to understand your self and other people, through kindness, humanity, empathy, compassion. Being able to still your mind, and find answers from within, knowing that you can trust yourself. Being able to mediate and learn how to be able to separate from your ego and see the world for what it is, in all it’s positive and negative aspects. And a million and more other ways that it’s possible to be spiritual without needing some god to tell you how to be spiritual.

Religious spirituality is based on religious doctrine that we just inherit from our predecessors. We are taught to pray to god for all the answers and trust in him, even though he has never been proven to exist, and to believe in him even if it goes wrong because “he works in mysterious ways”. This highly organised and structured religious spirituality that asks you not to look within but to look up to him.

And the Peoples Front of Judea ?

@SerendipityJane not to mention The People's Front Of Judea...

Splitters

What about the Popular Peoples Front ?

He's over there 😂

Personally I don't get 'really vexed' but I do get irritated when religious events are pushed upon me.

I'm not afraid of 'catching God', but I am annoyed by the prevalence of religion in everyday life. My children had to endure a legally mandated daily act of worship just to attend a state primary school. Frankly as someone who sees the horrifying acts committed by the church and in the name of the church over the centuries, I find that deeply offensive. Why should my children be forced to pretend to pray to an (in our eyes) imaginary figure designed to subjugate the masses, just in order to access education that we pay for through our taxes?

So yes, it pisses me off.

@QuizzlyBear I don't understand a system that can have the words 'compulsory' and 'worship' occurring in the same sentence. We're supposed to have freedom of religion and that should also include freedom from religion. Yes, I know students are allowed to opt out - but the school shouldn't have to put on this act of worship in the first place unless they actively want to.

Mind you, the rules are pretty much flouted everywhere, especially at secondary level.

@QuizzlyBear Frankly as someone who sees the horrifying acts committed by the church and in the name of the church over the centuries, I find that deeply offensive.

So do you not find the horrific acts committed by atheists over the centuries offensive?