He shouldn't have added my name to complaint

[Auntieobem]

Without at least letting me proof read it?? DP has submitted a complaint re some research conducted at dd's school. I was annoyed about the issue too, but he didn't tell me he'd submitted a formal complaint until after he'd put it in. Despite having a work colleague proof read it the letter he's submitted is full of grammatical mistakes and just reads like a rant.

He says he added my name because colleague told him it was better if it came from both of us. He doesn't think he's been unreasonable at all.

So

YABU - DP was just going what he thought was right

YANBU - DP shouldn't have sent it without checking with me first

Except there is no ethical issue here

Studies with children of that age group don’t require parental consent, as long as the children have been assessed to be competent.

in schools often teachers will be consulted as to their classes competence and levels of
understanding

so yes. The OP and her husband will be ‘those’ parents

Considering the OP hasn’t even seen the survey it’s odd how you’re so knowledgeable of what the questions were

Umm.. please could you link a reference for your assertion that consent is not required? It certainly would be by my university.
and legally the child’s personal data is protected under GDPR.

What’s your reasoning for saying that ethical research practices and the law don’t apply to children. They do. And under the law children are considered to be specifically vulnerable and require greater ethical scrutiny.

I’m going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don’t work in research ethics, safeguarding of children or the application of GDPR (or at least I hope you don’t)

You don’t know what data was collected

Personally identifiable information might not have even been collected

The OP herself hasn’t seen the bloody questions

@SkimmyWins

i assume you think this organisation is obsolete? childethics.com Perhaps you should tell them children don’t require ethical consideration 😉

also the OP mentioned heath data - that is very specifically considered under GDPR. I don’t need to see the questions to know that a heath and well-being surgery will likely be collecting aspects of personal data. Even if it didn’t research ethical approval would still apply

Personally identifiable information is not the same as personal data under GDPR.

I thought the OPs issue here was the letter being submitted in her name with atrocious grammar making her look like a tool. For what it's worth my H sometimes submits rants to the DM under my account..mortified I have one tbh..but I hate him doing it.

Yes he cocked up (tone and spelling). But it's done now and you can't get his rant back.

As you agree with the reason for complaint, now all you can do is present a united front to the school.

It is and she’s right, he should have spoken to her first.

but it’s also worthwhile flagging that a survey like this is unethical and possibly illegal to those posters criticising the OP for being concerned about it in the first place

Again

You don’t know what information was collected

It had to be identifiable to even be considered under GDPR.

The OP doesn’t know what data was collected, hence why she will still be ‘that parent’

I can almost guarantee this stick with the OP and her poor kid for the rest of their time at school. Embarrassing

He should not have added your name without asking you or showing you what he wrote. The colleague sounds like a bit of a twat.

It does not need to be directly identifiable. And without knowing what data was collected you cannot assert that it wasn’t School/class/sex/age can all make a child or group of children indirectly identifiable.

plus GDPR legislation is an entirely separate issue to child research ethics, which is what the OP is complaining about, and which you seem to have zero concept of. You are entirely incorrect to state that consent does not apply to children used in research. The link I’ve listed above makes that clear.

Its very easy to dismiss important research ethics and safeguarding principles when you clearly can’t be bothered to even try and understand them.

Did you contact the school to clarify the details and have a conversation before issuing a formal complaint?

@SkimmyWins

You also need to tell the NSPCC that they’re wrong
learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/briefings/research-with-children-ethics-safety-avoiding-harm

It has to be identifiable

as stated

you have no idea what questions were asked, what data is stored and how it’s being used.

neither does the OP

so again, you’re being ridiculous. As is the OP

I never said consent isn’t necessary, I said parental consent isn’t necessary. Which it isn’t for that age group if considered competent.

Christ you need help at this point

Do you not understand what guidance means? It means it’s a handy guide, not legislation, enforceable or even mandatory

Despite having a work colleague proof read it the letter he's submitted is full of grammatical mistakes and just reads like a rant.

So long as the content is ok, I would not criticise my DH for poor grammar as he took the initiative, wrote and filed the complaint on our behalf. I’d be like, great, thanks for getting that submitted. Glad you’re on top of it.

Your sentence above isn’t grammatically correct either btw.

But anyway, nitpicking what a partner does often leads to them checking out and leaving all this stuff to you to do. Next thing you know you’ll be on here wondering why your DH has stopped doing this sort of mental load and dealing with the schools headaches.

I get why you're annoyed. Your name is now on something that presumably is not professional enough /differs from the image you have or portray to the school.

Are there also chances that the tone of the letter might also affect how effective the complaint is?

It's done now, just tell your husband next time to give you the chance to read it through so you can proof read and add any pertinent points you might want to make.

It seems many universities and the UK research councils are ridiculous and wrong for being concerned with the ethical use of children in research, along with the OP, NSPCC, child research ethics organisation and myself.

www.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/-/media/files/student-hub/research-ethics/carnegie-guidance--working-with-children-2020.pdf

www.ukri.org/councils/esrc/guidance-for-applicants/research-ethics-guidance/research-with-children-and-young-people/

thank goodness we have @SkimmyWins here to berate us and correct us based on her personal opinion 😁

you REALLY don’t understand how research ethics work to safeguard vulnerable populations do you? 😂

There is a lot of incompetence around research design and ethics. Source: I was a student who put together a survey for adults, reviewed and signed off by uni ethics committee. We still got a load of complaints about the design from the people who were contacted to fill out the survey... some from staff within the university...!

You are right to question it OP.

I do find it darkly hilarious that in submitting a complaint about ethics and consent... your DH didn't get your consent to add you as a signatory🤔 further lending weight to the idea that it's incompetence rather than malice that is at fault here...

@SkimmyWins there are specific ethics rules within the university for research with children under 12, which some of the respondents were. The rules weren't followed.

Says the person posting NSPCC GUIDANCE as a backup of their opinion

you really don’t understand how to conduct a rational argument

Yabu if you both agreed you would complain and he took the initiative, unless you expressly said you wanted input. Yanbu if he did it without discussion.

Neither of you are unreasonable to complain. No study involving children should ever be permitted without parental consent. But you (and anyone else with a clue) already know that.