To be upset by this situation with DD?

[ljs22]

DD 16 just came home from a friend's house on the bus. It's about a 30 min bus ride. She was upset when she got home saying a man roughly in his 60s who was clearly drunk (smelt of alcohol and was swaying when he got on the bus) had chosen to sit right next to her despite there being many other free seats. She said he stared at her and made her feel uncomfortable, put his face close to her when talking to her and told her she was really pretty etc. She was trying to ignore him and looking at her phone, messaging friends etc, and said he was constantly looking at what she was doing on her phone. At one point he also touched her arm because she had turned away from him in an attempt to ignore him. She said she wanted to tell him to move away but felt too scared to do so.

I don't know what I'm posting for. I suppose I'm just upset on her behalf that men feel this sort of behaviour is appropriate especially towards a teenage girl. DD is very pretty and attracts a lot of attention from boys her own age, but this feels different and almost bordering on harassment the way she described it.

How can I advise her to manage this in future?

My FIL is a bus driver and he always says he wishes more people would tell him if something happening on the bus is making them uncomfortable/worried because he can't do anything about things he doesn't know about. He tries to keep an eye on lone female passengers later at night but he obviously can't be that vigilant as has to drive.

In future tell her to sit in the aisle not next to the window and if someone is bothering her to say "excuse me" and move to sit somewhere else (as close to the driver as possible) Also those funny little sideways seats you sometimes get behind the driver are good.

Agree with PP. Sit in an aisle seat, sit near the driver. But mainly she needs to stop worrying about being rude. The man was behaving appallingly - he doesn't deserve her politeness. She should have gotten up and moved seats. And if he touched her, top of the voice "DO NOT TOUCH ME PLEASE" so that everyone else looks round. Girls have it so ingrained in to them to be polite, not make a fuss, not draw attention to themselves. They need to be taught to stand up to themselves. Obviously it would be better if they didn't have to be taught that, of course, if these things never happened, but as the world we live in still isn't the one we want, teach her to make a fuss if it does.

This is so depressing. I've just been reading a book called Longbourn which is the backstory of pride and prejudice. In it, Wickham behaves like this to the servants, exactly the same! He blocks their path, gives them lingering locks, forces them to squeeze past him. It's absolutely sickening.

I've always taught my children to sit next to a middle-aged woman if they feel they might need help.

But she said the bus had loads of free seats? So why would you feel rude 🙄

This! I would love an excuse to shout at someone sometimes 😂

Tell her she can stand up to allow them access to the window seat.

Tell her where creeps are involved 'rude' doesn't come into it!

she can ring the bell and get the drivers attention, she can speak loudly (please don't touch me) (STOP TOUCHING ME)

what she CANNOT do, if she wants to travel alone us put good manners above safety)

Honestly you are all pretty close with your suggested responses… but for the love of all that is holy stop with the politeness and explanations.

DO NOT TOUCH ME PLEASE - Get your (insert expletive of choice here) hands off of me

You are making me feel uncomfortable, move away now - Piss off and move on

So in that situation she could have said "excuse me" - got up and sat close to the driver and told the other passenger (if they object) she needed to concentrate on reading something. - WTF No you’re not sitting next to me or when he started to sit down… ‘Move along lots of empty seats’

Absolutely this! I've been in your daughter's position on buses and trains more times than I can remember, old men, young men, drunk and sober. At uni we used to call them the nutters on the bus, like jasper carrott's sketch.

If it happened to me now (clearly less likely as I'm now late 40s) I'd tell them to eff off out of my face!

Rule 101 of dealing with drunk people who may or may not be violent. Try polite but assertive first before you go for confrontational.

It really is sickening how some of these vile men behave.

We need to end the idea that girls, and women, always need to be polite, should never make a fuss and say things like ''excuse me'' when being bothered by some old pervert.

Because that conditioning prevents many women from reacting quickly and stopping/reporting the unwanted behaviour as soon as it starts.

Instead we need to teach them that they don't owe men ''niceness''.

If someone bothers you immediately walk away and speak to the driver or if you are a mouthy Londoner like me you say something in the line of ''Get the fk out of my space you dirty old perv'' or ''don't you touch you filthy b**d'' as loud as possible.

You act like I’ve never been in a similar situation.

Whatever, tell your daughters to reason with lecherous drunks, I’m sure it will work out just fine.

have her practice saying “piss off you old pervert” or something similar. It’s going to happen again (sadly) so helping her to be ready to respond is probably sensible. Hideous that we have to do this of course…..

I didnt say reason with a lecherous drunk I said polite but assertive.

"Excuse me I am going to sit somewhere else" is far less likely to escalate the situation than "Piss off" but you do you.

I'm so sorry this happened to your daughter ljs22, I hope she is ok tomorrow.
I really sympathise because something very similar happened to one of my daughters in the very first week she was commuting to secondary school by herself. It was during the early afternoon and she was only thirteen. Just posting to say I know how you feel

The way some men behave towards young girls is disgusting. It happened to me at that age and I work with teenage girls and the things I've witnessed and that they have told me are shocking. I've had to intervene multiple times and generally the men are embarrassed and apologetic when called out. It can go the other way though where they either get verbally abusive or physically threatening. Its always trickier to manage when someone is drunk so moving away or telling the bus driver is probably the best option here. All the ladies on here are giving solid advice with the aisle seat and learning to assert herself and use her voice.

You’re missing the point. She gets to own her space. Escalating is often the point. People like this guy wants an easy, polite, target. They don’t want to find themselves interacting with a foul mouth ,loud, pissed off teen. They will avoid these types of girl like the plague because they know it’s going to escalate.

One whiff of someone standing up to them and they’ll move on to the next target or shut up and sit down. Yes there will often be words exchanged, but who cares? Who cares if the bus load of people here him slag off a young woman standing her ground.

Do you think they will turn on her and let the kind drunk man sit down next to her and touch her? not likely

And clearly typos and fighting autocorrect are my friends tonight…so disregard the bad formatting and punctuation above.

The biggest disservice done to girls in recent times is to urge them to #BeKind

I’m not sure that’s a particularly wise thing to say to someone who may get off at the same stop as you/ retaliate violently/ spit /become aggressive.

“Using your words” may not result in a favourable outcome. Yes it may work, but what if it doesn’t? It’s pretty high risk in my opinion.

Also, don’t expect people to come to your defence and protect you. Self preservation is high and turning a blind eye is easier. If the other passengers haven’t seen any wrong doing, pissed old man plays innocent, teen looks like a gobshite mouthing off, swearing and throwing accusations.

Sit in the aisle seat. Stand. Move. Speak to the driver.

I had this coming home from school in year 6 ,on my own on the bus ,a man sits next to me and starts to wank.penis completely out for me to see.
my useless mother did nothing,and really age 11 could of fetched me from school ,but chose to have me get a bus home ,and then walk .
really upset ,I got of the bus early and ran home .thank god he didn’t follow me .
i was very young for my age ,no makeup still with pigtails ,so he knew what he was doing alright

It was me that suggested "you are making me feel uncomfortable, move away now" and that isn't polite at all. It just doesn't involve swearing. You don't need to tell your daughter to start swearing at someone, you need to teach her to be firm, say no and tell an adult (the bus driver).

“Bordering” on harassment ?

Even you are minimising it

Good advice above

These men often walk off if you start filming them and describing what they're doing.

Phone out “passing you onto the paedo hunters mate better watch your back”

Its fortunate guns are illegal or I swear I would take these men out.

I remember exactly this scenario from when I was the same age, it was even the same seat, the rest of the bus was empty.

I have never, even once since not sat on the outside seat. I can't book the middle seats at the cinema or theatre. I have extreme claustrophobia, I had to make the receptionist at school know so she always made sure I got an exit seat at school plays etc.

The man that did this to me did touch my legs, I was frozen the entire journey. Your daughter told you, I could never have talked to my mum about it. At least you can support your dd on how to handle these situations in the future.

I didn't actually realise this was a thing creeps did. 😡