Screaming at us to shush

[Nopeaceinthishouse]

Dd, just turned 4 has started shouting at us to shush and to go away etc if she’s angry (usually if she doesn’t get something she wants)
She wasn’t like this before and it’s been the last couple of months.
It’s just so rude and disrespectful screaming at us to shush, anything I do isn’t working to try to calm/stop this.
Is this normal? What should I do?

This is what I mean by behaviour meeting a need.
With this child she need a calmer and quieter surrounding, so making people shhh met her need. Here a pair of noise cancelling headphones maybe another way of meeting her needs.

She sounds frustrated and exhausted. Kids need to blow off some steam the same way that adults need to blow off some steam. Adults can have a chat with friends or drink a glass of wine or go for a run after a tough day. Kids just need to have the odd melt down and emotional release. If she’s just started school and she’s 4, she’s probably exhausted from keeping it together all day 5 days a week.

She's 4. She isn't being disrespectful, she is learning to interact and express herself and your responses will shape her ability to effectively do that. Read some parenting books for various strategies to manage it.

I'm going to suggest some things. Some you might've already tried ,some you might think are bonkers, some might not work. Just pick and choose what you feel might work for you/the family and what makes sense.
I can also explain the reasoning behind them if you want me to.

1. Give warnings . Bed time in 10 minutes. You have 5 minutes until bed. Bedtime in 1 minute . Ok time to go to bed now.

2.choices . Keep them limited. Two options that you are happy with. Don't get into an argument,or explain . Just present it as a done deal and then just keep repeating it calmly. "Do you want toast or yogurt?" .

1. Catch her being good and praise the behaviours you want to see,especially when it comes to reactions and her articulating her needs/feelings in an appropriate way.

1. When you ask her to do something end with thank you not please(this doesn't necessarily have to be every single time). So instead of "put your shoes on please" say "put your shoes on. Thank you". Sounds really stupid but it works 90% of the time.

1. When she shouts just calmly say ok and stop. Sit/stand next to her, pretend you're busy and let her come to you. Shouting over each other, going at each other, getting angry etc just escalates things pointlessly. Don't feed into it. Once she's done ,then you can talk to her ,about her feelings ,what she could've done instead or give any consequences if needed. Especially natural consequences. "No you can't watch Bluey because it finished while you were shouting ". Or "we only have time for one story because it took so long for you to settle down".

1. Clear,reasonable and consistent consequences. No TV for a week because she shouted when angry isn't reasonable for example.

1. The quieter you are, the more a child will try to listen and they'll likely quieten down as well. Or at least you won't end up in a screaming match.

1. Remember she's 4. She more than likely doesn't have the tools to always recognise her needs/feelings ,much less communicate them in an appropriate manner. Yes the shouting is upsetting and rude but in her eyes you're making her feel like x (no matter how unreasonable that is-my daughter once cried for half an hour because I didn't look at her sock 🙄🙄) and she wants you to stop because she doesn't want to feel x. So she's doing it the only way she knows how. Understanding where she comes from and the limits does help in the moment in keeping you calm. Not always, but it helps.

1. When she is calm and settled do some work with her about feelings,not just what they are but how they feel in her body. Heart beating faster,shaky hands,butterflies in her tummy , sweating etc. Same with her basic needs hungry,tired , cold/hot etc. So many kids seem angry for example but they're actually tired or hungry. They just don't recognise that and/or are unable to vocalise it. Talk through coping mechanisms,what she could say,what she could do instead. Remind her after the tantrums about them. Emphasise that all feelings are ok, but she needs to express them in an appropriate way. So "It's ok to be angry,but you can't scream at mummy. It doesn't help and it just upsets the both of us. Next time you could...".

Sorry for the very lengthy and probably annoying post.

Is she your only child, @Nopeaceinthishouse? If so, this probably feels worse than it is. If you had lots of children, you'd barely notice it. So you perhaps need to pretend that you're also dealing with a baby and a toddler as well, and not take it too seriously. Let her blow off steam and then move on.

In your example, you're giving her too many choices. You offered her three choices so she screamed for the one thing that wasn't on offer (and why not cereal? My DC all used to have Weetabix before they went to bed). If you want to offer a choice, give her two choices. Even better, model the 'right' choice - "I'm going to have a lovely apple/oatcake/whatever before I get ready for bed - would you like to share it with me?" Even if it's 6PM and you're not actually going to bed for another three hours.

She’s only four! I think you’re projecting adult manners and social etiquette onto her by dwelling on how it’s ‘rude’ and ‘disrespectful.’ She’s still little and learning how to self-regulate and deal with feelings like disappointment, frustration, anger etc.

Her telling you to shush is likely because she’s trying to stop the input that is making her feel those big and difficult feelings (eg: your voice saying no) rather than because she’s trying to be rude or disrespectful; a pre-schooler doesn’t have a solid enough grasp of social etiquette to be either of those things. I’m not saying as a behaviour it’s okay or that you shouldn’t be trying to teach her the skills to manage her feelings and reactions in a different way, but telling her off for saying shush in the moment isn’t really helping her to calm or to learn other ways to manage her anger.

If you’ve said no you don’t necessarilly need to keep repeating it and working her up to the point she is telling you to shush. I would be trying to step away and give her some space before she gets to that point, just calmly reiterate what you’ve said and then leave her to process it without you repeating it. If she’s angry and shouting to shush it isn’t really the right time to be trying to teach her it’s disrespectful, she isn’t going to be able to process what you’re saying or learn from it at that point when engaged in an angry power struggle. In your shoes I would give her space to calm down when she is angry and address the saying shush etc and how it is rude and makes you feel etc later when she is calm and in a state to actually take in and process what you’re saying.

I’d also be reflecting on the behaviour of those around her and whether she has picked up the behaviour of shushing people from anybody in the family, does she ever get told to shh or do any of the adults tell each other to shush etc? It could be she is mirroring behaviour she has seen, in which case she isn’t likely to stop unless the adults around her stop too.

you just reminded me, my kid used to do that. It is possible he got it from me/his dad Oops. I looked for advice, found none but it didn’t matter as he stopped anyway. Not sure how long it went on for. And he does other annoying stuff now instead.

Agree with this! Bigger guns needed!

Sorry to hijack the thread, but @IdontWanna where did you learn these techniques? I have a one year old and want to get my reading/watching in over the next year so I'm prepared for when she starts being more aware of right and wrong and I have to work on discipline etc.! I don't really have time or money for parenting classes but audiobooks or YouTube I do 👍🏻

You can only be in a power struggle if you choose to struggle. Don't.

Read 'How to Talk so Kids Will Listen' . You're creating unnecessary flashpoints and getting into a battle for control. A lot of situations can be diffused with creativity and humour. The book helps you to define those opportunities.

I have one the same age. They aren't deliberately being rude. I think they are very sensitive to getting things wrong and struggle to manage those feelings. There isn't one foolproof way of handling these things and you won't always be your best parenting self because no one ever can be - sometimes it's hard to remember that they are still growing brains and have so much to learn every day. So I don't have any lines specifically to recommend to you. I can only say that in these situations I try to think about what she is feeling rather than what she is saying, and try to help her with the feeling first ("hey, you're not in trouble" or "it can be so hard to remember all these new rules, can't it?") and come back to how I think she should have behaved in a calm way a bit later when she has calmed down ("the reason I said X to you was that...").

But I would be lying to you if I said I have never said "oh don't be silly" or "what on earth is the matter?" or tried to shut down the rude behaviour by being very Grown Up and Firm, even though none of these things ever work as well as the stuff I said earlier!

I don't think think this is normal at all.

Honestly have you said it's inappropriate behaviour?

Kids needs clear boundaries had my kids, nieves, nephews etc told me that I'd have very clearly told them that I don't shout at them to sush etc so it's disrespectful to do it to anyone else. It's rude. If you want quiet and space, just say "I need to be alone for a while" and pop to your room. When you feel calmer you can come join us again. It helps them get better control of their emotions.

Good luck OP. Your DD sounds like a bright spark, perhaps work out how to hone her determination 😘

@Dibbydoos I say it to her all the time

@SimonJones Only child, is it that obvious 🙈

“I was very calm and kept reiterating how it was for the morning and she had other choices and it was bedtime now.”

Don't ‘reiterate’ anything. That’s verging on negotiating with a tantrumming tired child which way madness lies. If it’s truly bedtime you calmly say ‘no darling it’s bedtime now’ and pick her up and take her to bed. Yes she’ll be kicking off, screaming, crying, the works - you ignore it all and calmly (no words and no eye contact) get her pjs on (if you can) and put her in to bed. Say ‘ok it’s sleep time now, nigh night’ give her a kiss and leave. If she still kicks off - no words no eye contact ignore her for as long as you can (no longer than a few minutes) then put her back still grey rock. DO NOT engage verbally but still be loving and calm.

The key will young children is be more demonstrative than verbal. And if you want them to sleep, and they’re resisting, you physically pick them up put them in bed with minimal verbal instruction. Remember you are the adult and should be dominant in a benign and loving way.

That would probably be labelled abuse nowadays but personally I think it sounds effective.

😂😂😂

Excellent advice.

It was absolutely not abuse. It was a very reasonable consequence. I wasn't at all traumatised and it worked.

So many people seem obsessed with the idea that they must never, ever let their kids feel like they don't want to be with them or talk to them. In the real world, if you behave like a dick people won't want to be around you. We don't do our children any favours by pretending that isn't the case.

It is normal for her age and I would deal with it by modelling what she should do if a peer does that in the playground.
So in the case of the game I would say "I don't like being told off. I will play with you later when you've calmed down"
In theory her peers will do the same if she behaves like that at school which will
help her learn that people don't like being scolded.
Have you spoken to her about the playground ? There's much less supervision compared to nursery so a lot of life lessons being learned.

@Nopeaceinthishouse

I don't think your response of getting angry back or walking off is going to teach her how to communicate, and it's too important a skill to ignore.

When she gets frustrated or angry next time, dig in.
Ask her how she's feeling, tell her you understand she's feeling angry, and that it's OK to feel that way.
Tell her we all get angry sometimes, but we can talk it out instead of shouting at people or walking off.

Suggest to her in a game where she has lost the plot that what's happening is a case of misunderstanding on your part, and ask if she can try to explain it all again to silly mummy.

It is really, really important to teach girls that expressing anger is not going to result in people walking away.

Right now her choice is get angry and people won't play with her, or put up with a good deal of frustration in order to retain your company. Do you see where I'm heading here?

Yeah, my 3 year old is like this. Nearly 4 now. Been forthright since 18 months. I’m not even a pushover parent. My husband and and i are pretty laid back, but we’ve tried everything from quiet words. Reasoning. Naughty steps… the occasional shutting her in her room (recently) nothing works. She’s very volatile when she’s not getting her own way and we don’t particularly spoil her… I feel like a terrible parent. But sometimes I just have to hope she’ll be a horror of a toddler and really lovely sensible teen like my older friends kids. 😂

Actually, tell a lie. I said 18 months. I found videos of her defiant temper at 10-12 months. She’s lovely at preschool, though. So I don’t think it’s a behavioural issue all round. Just loves pushing the boundaries with her parents.

Such different advice from everyone, so hard to know what to do for the best

math she is four, having a tantrum, emotionally overloaded. Then isn't the time to discuss and explain. Although I do agree that girls need to know that getting angry will not result in them being abandoned and learn how to channel that anger and deal with the feelings

Op, just try different things and remember there is no correct way, keep talking and asking for people's thoughts and ideas, use the ones you like and discard the ones you don't

Well it worked and the poster isn't scarred for life. I have a friend with a 3 year old who shouts at her to be quiet and puts her hand in her face to shut her up. Let's just say the wishy washy 'don't do that, I don't like it' hasn't made any difference whatsoever.