If only they'd talked to someone...

[HouseWithAView]

AIBU in thinking that people don't listen?

So often, when someone goes missing or attempts to/succeeds in ending their live, you hear people say 'that's so sad, if only they'd talked to someone about how they were feeling'. However, in many cases the person who was struggling has spoken about their troubles and been told, 'it's not that bad', 'don't be daft', 'I went through similar and I'm fine', etc. Constantly minimising and dismissing.

Granted, most folks family and friends aren't trained counsellors or psychologists but they don't need to be trained to listen and empathise. Sometimes that's all people need, to be heard and acknowledged.

@GinWithChocolate

Thanks!

This was what I meant really. For someone to get to the point of contemplating suicide they must have gone through serious turmoil. I appreciate not everyone in that situation will open up and ask for help and for those people, there is little anyone can do. However, my heart breaks for those that do try only to have the shutters pulled down in their face. I don't blame anyone for defaulting to the script ('stop worrying', etc.), I know it's because they don't know what else to say. I just find it desperately sad.

Thanks to everyone who has shared their personal experiences. I appreciate it and hope that anyone who needs to talk has/finds that outlet. Talking is so important!

I think it's very simplistic to say that talking to friends/family can make the difference between life and death. Sometimes it goes beyond that.

My Mum spent hours and hours, day after day, talking to my brother. I talked to him until 4am the day before he died.

He actually said in his suicide note that even all the love and care from his Mum and sister couldn't stop the pain of living.

If only talking saved lives, my brother would still be here.

Yes I was thinking exactly this today! I’ve attempted reaching out recently to friends and no one really responds or acknowledges why I might be struggling. These are friends I’ve supported when they have been struggling, who are very aware of mental health. But when I’ve tried to reach out I’m basically ignored and it feels like no one actually wants to hear it. I often feel like I have to listen and support everyone else but no one is there to listen to me.

When someone says they are feeling suicidal, it can feel that a huge responsibility has been passed on to you.. and not everyone can deal with that or know what to do.

I used to speak to a friends about how I was feeling. One would just call the police and have them get me proper help. Looking back, she really could not have done much more than that. It was unfair of me to burden her in such a way.

If a friend reaches out to me, I will listen, but I am not a therapist. I will always tell them to see a doctor etc.

It's all very situational isn't it. ie every situation is different.

The example I'm thinking of currently is that I'm sooooooo very worn down by this particular person's MH issues that I've got very very little left to give them, I can't always be there, I can't always listen endlessly - and I do mean endlessly, it's years and years of depression and negativity, there's a lot of help out there for depression but what about those on the other side? And then we're accused of not doing enough.

I'm probably too long in the tooth for this debate but we're each responsible for our own mental health, don't lay the blame at someone else's door when they're not directly responsible.

I think the only real help one can get for poor MH or suicidal thoughts is oneself.

People can reach out, take medication or even get therapy but in the end, the change has to come from within.

I am witnessing this at the moment with a friends partner. But when my friend talks about the struggles it's all about what others should be doing for them. How this new thing is going to be the answer only to be dismissed because the venue is triggering, the people running it are not properly informed or haven't got the right qualifications.

The poor MH is real, but they are stuck in this vicious circle. Used to the attention and afraid of losing the support they are currently receiving.

Most people are not equipped to help out... as as previous posters said, if this person would ever appear calm it could easily be because they made this dreadful suicide decision. But friends and family would think finally something has helped...

It's a sad thought.

These threads can be very triggering and it’s v situational.

I agree people saying ‘it’s not that bad’ etc. can appear to be minimising but even someone ‘actively listening’ cannot change the outcome. If therapy was that easy lots of people wouldn’t experience such difficult MH problems.

What do you want people to say though? I always try to offer sympathy but like you said I'm not a therapist.

I don't have the knowledge to solve someone's crisis. I only have the ability to say 'that's shit' and 'do you need help/therapy' or 'would you like some help solving this?'

I can't inject aeration in, prescribe antidepressants, work through their trauma or give them my money.

So what does the average friend actually do? All we can do is commiserate and offer a shoulder.

Seratonin* not aeration

This is the key. So well put and very very true.

I think the OP is very offensive to people who have lost a friend to suicide, presumably because they weren't nice enough or interested enough.

I have lost too many friends to suicide. One in particular was a absolute rock to me. He never reached out, so no one had any idea how he was feeling. He just decided to check out.

People do listen.. but people struggling don't tend to reach out.

xeno, I hope it was clear to you I was not agreeing with what I wrote about not being interested!

@GinWithChocolate
Thanks so much for the Ohana tip-off...I've just done it and was really impressed by the real life scenarios it coaches you through.

From threads on here plus real world experience it seems that quite often the person saying "it's just anxiety" or just whatever else and minimising is a MH nurse or GP who is being asked for help. Often the person concerned leaves feeling worse having been fobbed off. Or misdiagnosed including when they already have a diagnosis from a more qualified professional, this happens quite a lot too. Or refused the referral they know they are entitled to/were told to go back and request.

Agree with the gist of the thread btw although it can be hard to know who to talk to (more) and when and how.

I think it is really difficult, when people are depressed they lack motivation and the ability to see/act upon solutions. If you are supporting someone in this situation it can be very draining, because the illness makes it almost impossible for them to see or act upon any solution given, that in turn frustrates the person being told. It is a lot to keep hearing things are terrible for someone all the time and then see them not doing anything about it. Most people don't know how to deal with this. I'm trained and I find it difficult.

Also access to MH support is fragmented, and takes time and persistance that many people don't really have. The NHS Long Term Plan is making access to things such as crisis cafes much more available, but they are still just a sticking plaster.

It's tricky.

The advice to HCPs is to ask the person direct questions about their intention to self-harm because there is evidence that this reduces risk. Most well-intentioned friends and family would do the opposite of this because their instinct is to avoid the subject.

I am so sorry you have been through this. I'm sorry you have lost your husband.

To be honest there is a lot of judgement on this thread.
Frankly I have been there and there is only so much you can do. It is utterly exhausting and hopeless often. I am now at the point that if someone wants to die then they will somehow achieve this. All we can do is hope that we can show them it's worth living. But sometimes it isn't. I refuse now to feel guilt for failing. I didn't fail. I tried bloody hard to the detriment of all else. There is only so much listening a person can take.

There needs to be more support also for people living with those with suicidal thoughts.

Totally agree. People tend to minimise by saying ‘but at least….’ Or try to sympathise by listing an example of things they’ve gone through rather than actually listen and say, hey, it sucks, I’m sorry it has happened to you, have you thought about seeking some professional help?

The second issue is even when you’re crying out for professional help… there’s hardly any out there

@AnuSTart
There definitely needs to be more support in place, he knew what he was going to do and how he was going to do it, he told us. And we still could not of stopped it.
We don’t feel any guilt anymore. The children did for a while which was hard.
Thank you x

My husband has had depression for years . He is on sertraline which seems to be losing effectiveness but its very complicated to change medication as you probably know . So I am quite knowledgeable in this area by default. He does discuss it with me which is fine most of the time but if his mood is really bad it can be draining . I can see people glaze over when he mentions it in conversation to people. He does discuss it freely that's how he copes with it he's not a bottled up type of person . But people don't really want to go out and end up discussing depression do they ? Anyway we found a telephone counsellor in the lockdown just by searching on Google and you can read their specialisms and where they're based etc . That has been an absolute godsend . He did weekly then fortnightly now just as and when needed sessions .It does help and helps that if things get bad again I can say maybe you need to message your counsellor and get an hour booked in . Just thought that might be a suggestion for others ?

Its also important to recognise that everybody is different both in the way their MH troubles manifest and the way they need to deal with it. A few months ago I told my mother (in an unguarded moment) that I'd been on AD's for 15 years and had felt suicidal more than once. I didn't talk to her about it, mainly because I knew she would tell my dad, siblings, uncle and friends all because she was worried! . But also because I needed to get things straight in my own head before talking about it. Her reaction: "How would you feel if your daughter told you she'd been suicidal and didn't tell you - you should have told me so that I could have helped" I understand her reaction but tbh it was all about her and her feelings - in her eyes it is my fault for not being able to talk to her and she didn't even consider that it could be her who is the problem!!

Even now when the depression comes down, its like being in a dark, closely treed wood with no light and I have to figure out on my own which way is forward. Talking to someone won't help with that but that's the way I work - other people benefit hugely from talking/CBT/other therapies.