If only they'd talked to someone...

[HouseWithAView]

AIBU in thinking that people don't listen?

So often, when someone goes missing or attempts to/succeeds in ending their live, you hear people say 'that's so sad, if only they'd talked to someone about how they were feeling'. However, in many cases the person who was struggling has spoken about their troubles and been told, 'it's not that bad', 'don't be daft', 'I went through similar and I'm fine', etc. Constantly minimising and dismissing.

Granted, most folks family and friends aren't trained counsellors or psychologists but they don't need to be trained to listen and empathise. Sometimes that's all people need, to be heard and acknowledged.

And this opinion is precisely why people feel they can’t share how they feel.

Shallow, mean and unkind.

That is how I perceive it.

And you know- my grammar is awful but this post has really made me sad so I am typing hastily

☹️

@McConkeysPlate that's awful, I'm so sorry.

Absolutely. Could not agree more.

And I struggle massively. Every single day.

I can't talk to anyone when I've felt suicidal. My mother thinks that depression, anxiety etc is "all in your mind" therapy a weakness. I realise it may be a generation thing. I don't tell my "friends" as they don't understand or give me some nuggets like "it could be worse...."
Start of the year I was standing on a bridge and a complete stranger talked me down, I'm very grateful to him.

@McConkeysPlate I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you and your DC are managing ok.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have their own shit going on. I’m not a sharer but that doesn’t mean things aren’t bothering me. However, if someone then tried to offload their problems too it all becomes ‘a lot’ and it becomes harder to manage your own stuff.

I’ve had friends go through horrendous things simultaneously and it was so hard trying to support them both. Obviously not as hard as what they were going through but it’s intensely draining as a lay person.

Also, look at this thread. Full of people giving the ‘wrong’ support when they’ve tried to help

I'm not sure I agree that people won't listen. I think it's a case of they don't know what to do or say. It's also very difficult to tell if someone is very down but coping or not coping and suicidal.

I had someone call me when they were suicidal. They didn't use those words but I got to the point where I had to ask if they.eere suicidal. They were and told me they would be gone soon. I was hours away so kept them on the phone talking, where were they,what were they planning, who would find them,what did they need to escape from, what could I do, would their GP help, who could I call or what could I do. I was at work and googling what to do etc. I hadn't a clue what I was doing.

Long story short, I got help to them in time, they were hospitalised and got treatment. They were someone I barely knew but I later discovered why they called me. It made sense to them if not me.

It's the only conversation in my life that I fully recall word for word.

Unfortunately, a much closer friend did take their own life and I missed it. I actually thought they were doing much than in yrs. I wish things were different.

Ohana do a free online suicide prevention course. It's about 20-30 minutes long and well worth doing.

There's always help and a better option. Always but it's very hard to see that when you are in that space.

There's a difference between being able to talk to someone (who says 'don't worry you'll be fine') and having a genuine, deep, meaningful connection with someone.

And even that isn't often enough. But I would argue it does help.

So many people seem to have small-talk type relationships with even their close friends and family and don't seem to be able to open up, but can open up to more removed people. And some people seem to be unable to open up, full stop - some things can just be very very hard to talk about.

It's eye-opening once you find out how many people seem to go through the same struggles and face the same problems inside their head, while thinking everyone else is sorted and nobody feels like them.

If anyone feeling low on any level needs to talk, send me a PM, offload, talk, rant, anything. I will listen x

But they did try to talk to someone, and the someone they talked to did try to support them, it isn't foolproof, no, but wouldn't you find it a little bit dismissive and offensive if everyone started saying, about your friend "well why didn't they reach out" because that's erasing what actually happened and a gross oversimplification of the situation?

My experience of this is that it isn’t just one defining conversation though.

People who are suicidal feel it for years and tend to have repeated ups and downs. Those ‘downs’ can be frustratingly draining on the people around them and when it happens time and time again, and that person doesn’t appear to seek help or take any advise, those allies can become intolerant, impatient and eventually possibly a bit dismissive.

It’s not that they don’t care - they don’t really understand the true depth of the emotional hurt that the person permanently lives with and with the best will in the world they turn away from it for the sake of their own sanity. Which is a normal human reaction. Sometimes there are limits on how much you can support someone else.

It’s a complex set of human dynamics and no one is to blame.

“Ohana do a free online suicide prevention course. It's about 20-30 minutes long and well worth doing.”

Could you provide a link to this please?

As a late teen a best friend attempted suicide twice, once in my presence and once a while later…telephoning me in the process.

A year later she seemed to be turning things around. We had plans to go out one night, I had to cancel as my parents were cracking down before A levels. We chatted for half an hour or so in the early evening as per usual. I then had a missed call a few hours later. Turns out that phone call was made from the top of a multi storey car park, which she then went on to throw herself off.

I don’t know what the relevance here is, but I have no idea what any of us could have done. I’m 41 now, and she is in my thoughts more days than not even now.

Love to all those struggling.

www.samaritans.org/scotland/how-we-can-help/if-youre-having-difficult-time/

Samaritans 24 hours a day, 7 days a week call free on any phone: 116 123

www.samaritans.org/scotland/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/

People do just want someone to listen to them but the problem is that they may well feel better afterwards but then I feel worse.

My life isn't brilliant. I get by and I make the best of it. I've had a lot of trauma in my past which I've mostly dealt with alone. I spend more time faking happiness than feeling it. Because I know its on me to make the best of things. I manage that way. But its a very delicate balance.

Once someone offloads on me I then feel shit myself. Usually what they're upset about is something I've either been through or am still going through. So that then makes me feel crap about my own life. I can't handle that, I'm just about hanging on as it is.

So yes, now I am really selfish and I just focus on me. I keep all bad things locked in a box. Many will say that isn't healthy but I've tried seeking professional help. The last time I did they told me I had a good understanding of my problems so there was nothing they could do for me! Because ultimately professionals can't "fix" you. The aim is to get you to recognise your problems and fix them yourself. So my way of fixing is to ignore anything negative. That means I just cannot take on anything like that from others.

Listening is a skill. Many people don't possess it.

www.ohana.ie/

Agree. People say those things either to make ease their conscience like ‘I did listen and I gave advice’ but for MH lots of faux concern. Seems people only care when someone has killed themselves but not before. The virtue signalling on here is such fake bullshit. Basically with MH everyone is out of their depth as it’s so individualistic.

Hi HouseWithAView,

We hope you don't mind, but when threads like these are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources. You can also go to the Samaritans website
or email them on [email protected]. Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to seek real-life help and support as well.

NHS: Where to get urgent help for mental health
NHS: Looking after your mental health
MIND: Coping with mental health problems during coronavirus
CALM: The Campaign Against Living Miserably
NHS: Help for suicidal thoughts

We hope things look a lot brighter soon for anyone who is struggling.
Very best wishes from MNHQ.

This place is full of so much bullshit. You all talk about wanting to help and listen. And yet when I spoke on here about lockdown making me suicidal I got absolutely torn to shreds, castigated for not protecting the vulnerable, told I was a disgrace for wanting human company and contact and that I was personally responsible for people dying.

I wasn't the right kind of vulnerable you see, and no one wanted to listen.

Sorry everyone, the Samaritans links did work when I posted them because I checked carefully. They have changed since being posted for some strange reason and now don't work. MNHQ have linked in their post now, so I will ask them to delete mine.

I think sometimes people just don't know what to say. Sometimes 'dont worry about it" is someone's way of trying to make the person feel better. It's hard to find the words sometimes. Sometimes people also don't know how bad someone is feeling. 'im feeling low' and 'i can't stop worrying about x' might just mean an off day or a minor worry to some people, but others saying it maybe literally be on the verge of ending their life. People just don't know and are not well equipped always to respond in the best way.

Suicide is also hard to predict. I've worked in services where people present with feeling suicidal on a daily basis. Picking out those that will actually make a fatal attempt (v few), from those who may never (most), is v hard and there are numerous factors involved. Often people seem a bit better just before they choose to end their life. Often the act is impulsive and not predictable.

"if they'd just said something/reached out/told someone" is not always as easy as that. Sometimes people genuinely feel they can't speak (because they believe their problem is shameful, unsolvable or burdensome etc.). And sometimes they are right about the feared outcome of speaking up (eg. Losing a marriage, losing their children, going to prison etc...) so don't.

Maybe sometimes listening and offering the right words isn't enough? Maybe sometimes there are no right words? I suspect a lot of suicidal feelings are far deeper and more complex than just needing someone to listen to you.

You are right op.

It's a complex and difficult thing though.

I've struggled with poor mental health my whole life and I don't feel that I've ever had much understanding from anyone. I'm certainly not one to burden others with my problems but people are terribly tactless. Even telling someone you're finding a situation difficult people don't want to hear it. The amount of times I've heard "stop worrying", "you're lucky", "cheer up", "it could be worse" It's fucking ridiculous. What can be worse on an individual level than feeling so terrible that you're thinking of ways to end your own life?

What I find more helpful is people can acknowledge how bad you're feeling. "I can understand", "things can get better", "I care about you", "you matter", "one day at a time".

I've also been on the other side of this and it is really hard to deal with especially when you have your own problems going on.

The trouble with suicidal thoughts is they are (as a pp said) often a king term, up and down thing. What there really needs to be are better and more trained services for people to access.

Often, just before someone takes their own life they appear happy/calm because they’ve made the decision and are at peace with it. Once someone reached that point, there’s little anyone can do and they don’t present as not having capacity so hospital can’t hold them. The help needs to come before that but lots of us are so preoccupied in our own lives, people fall through the cracks.