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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

380 replies

namechange0998776554432 · 26/10/2022 14:53

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 26/10/2022 18:13

BaffledShopper · 26/10/2022 18:11

We are also assuming OP is in the UK. However, she said her full-time holiday allowance is 25 days per year, so she must be elsewhere as the statutory minumium in the UK is 28 days…

I imagine it's 25 days plus an amount for bank holidays

@namechange0998776554432 what is the full holiday entitlement including bank holidays as that could make the calculation more complicated too?

ThelastRolo20 · 26/10/2022 18:13

Just to echo others, your hour entitlement would reduce, but if it's the same hours every day, five days a week, the day entitlement remains the same. Just ask them to convert your annual leave to hours, and book off as hours - that'll fix it!

Summerhouse2013 · 26/10/2022 18:14

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 26/10/2022 14:56

You should still get the same number of days. The total hours will be different 5hough. So if you were previously entitled to 100 hrs, you would now be entitled to 80hrs which would equate to the same number of days because each day now takes up less hours.

Totally agree - at least you understand!

Original poster
namechange0998776554432 · 26/10/2022 18:14

Yes I'm in the UK and it's 25 days plus bank holidays

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 26/10/2022 18:17

So 33 days for full time staff?
Have they tried to do you out of the bank holidays too?

Notallislost · 26/10/2022 18:17

I recently condensed my hours so working 4 days a week instead of 5. so I now get less 'days' off but the exactly same amount of hours as before as I'm still working 37.5 hours a week. So instead of one day being 7.5hours, one day a/l is now 9.5 hours a day etc.
They have it wrong and pretty bad form of HR to mess up like that. Ask for your a/l. In hours (which they can't refuse) and go from there.

Original poster
namechange0998776554432 · 26/10/2022 18:19

dementedpixie · 26/10/2022 18:17

So 33 days for full time staff?
Have they tried to do you out of the bank holidays too?

Oh my goodness yes! It says 6 bank holidays. I hadn't even noticed that!

OP posts:
BretonBlue · 26/10/2022 18:20

Have you checked your pension?

Princessglittery · 26/10/2022 18:21

@namechange0998776554432 I am going to add a complication into the mix. This will blow some peoples minds.

Currently you are quite rightly concerned about what your new contract will state.

However, when they recalculate your leave for the current year remember up until the date you reduce your hours you accrue leave based on your full time hours it is only after that date it is based on PT hours. As pp state you can use days in your case and so there is no difference but if you use hours you could gain or lose hours depending how much leave you have taken.

Notallislost · 26/10/2022 18:22

Also good point about the bank holidays - make sure that they calculate that too. I have to pay in 2 hours a/l for every bank holiday but for you it would be different. So if you get 75hours a year bank holidays (10 days) then you will get 80% of that so 60 hours etc

TiaraBoo · 26/10/2022 18:22

Yes they’ve balls that up completely. And strange to see so many people agreeing!

I used to work part time over 5 days and therefore had 25 days AL because my days were shorter.

I would ask HR (not the intern), how do you book 1 week of annual leave with only 4 days.

Surely you’re not the first person that’s gone part time over 5 days.

JAC76 · 26/10/2022 18:23

Most annual leave is counted in hours - in your case the full time equivalent is pro rata to 80%, so that’s correct but it means now when you take a days annual leave you only need to take the number of hours you actually work on that day normally under your new work pattern. I work part time like yourself leave early two days a week to collect kids and this is how my annual leave allocation works.

TiaraBoo · 26/10/2022 18:24

And you want all the BHs as you get paid 20% less for each of them!

dementedpixie · 26/10/2022 18:24

How many hours is full time and how many hours are your part time hours?

Regardless you are entitled to 33 days just like full timers working 5 days

BaffledShopper · 26/10/2022 18:25

Notallislost · 26/10/2022 18:17

I recently condensed my hours so working 4 days a week instead of 5. so I now get less 'days' off but the exactly same amount of hours as before as I'm still working 37.5 hours a week. So instead of one day being 7.5hours, one day a/l is now 9.5 hours a day etc.
They have it wrong and pretty bad form of HR to mess up like that. Ask for your a/l. In hours (which they can't refuse) and go from there.

According to the government's calculation tool that was linked earlier, annual leave can be calculated in hours OR days.

And if you work 5 days (comprising x hours per day) per week you are entitled to 28 days (comprising the same number of hours per day) annual leave.

So whether you work 1 hour per day (person A) or 7.5 hours per day (person B), you still get 28 days off! If you look at it terms of cover needing to be arranged, the employer will only need to arrange alternate staffing for 1 hour per to day to cover person A while she is on holiday.

Hopefully that is simple enough for those who are not mathematically inclined.

Original poster
namechange0998776554432 · 26/10/2022 18:25

Princessglittery · 26/10/2022 18:21

@namechange0998776554432 I am going to add a complication into the mix. This will blow some peoples minds.

Currently you are quite rightly concerned about what your new contract will state.

However, when they recalculate your leave for the current year remember up until the date you reduce your hours you accrue leave based on your full time hours it is only after that date it is based on PT hours. As pp state you can use days in your case and so there is no difference but if you use hours you could gain or lose hours depending how much leave you have taken.

As we're so close to the end of the year I'm only really concerned about getting this right from 1 st January. This year has been a very complicated mix of working, sick leave and unpaid leave so I could forgive any confusion around that. There are even more complications around the fact that I've 'bought' an extra 10 days annual leave (which I pay for through salary sacrifice). But all that is up to me to figure out based on my current contract. My main concern right now is not signing a new contract stating 20 days per annum (plus 6 days public holidays) and then being held to it next year.

OP posts:
RoseGoldEagle · 26/10/2022 18:28

Surely they just mean you’re entitled to 20 ‘full’ days, but actually as you’ll only have to take 6 hours (or whatever it is), to get a day off, they’ll stretch further and you’ll still end up with the same number of days overall?

Princessglittery · 26/10/2022 18:29

@namechange0998776554432 I completely understand and agree getting your contract right is imperative.

Tessabelle74 · 26/10/2022 18:30

Holiday is pro rata, ergo if your hours go down so does your holiday hours entitlement. That's common knowledge

Noln · 26/10/2022 18:33

Your leave should be calculated in hours instead of days. So if a day is usually 8 hours and you get 25 days, you're getting 8 x 25 - 200 hours leave a year. If you're now doing 6 hours a day, you should get 6 x 25 - 150 hours. So then each day you take off, you use 6 hours leave not 8 and its works out the same.

honeybeetheoneandonly · 26/10/2022 18:35

I work exactly the same way and when I was initially set up HR also reduced my holiday entitlement. I asked how to request a full day holiday because it worked out a percentage of a day this way. It would have been an absolute pain to do it this way. It took my manager speaking to HR to get it sorted. It's now back to 25 and if I need to put a day or week in it just works as full days. If they insist on 20 days, ask how to enter a day holiday on your request form/system in future, hopefully that will make the penny drop.

stayathomer · 26/10/2022 18:35

I work 4 hours a day (down from a 40 hour week) and I will get the same holidays but obviously less hours- I don’t get people thinking you get less days- you’re working 5 days a week!!

Princessglittery · 26/10/2022 18:35

Tessabelle74 · 26/10/2022 18:30

Holiday is pro rata, ergo if your hours go down so does your holiday hours entitlement. That's common knowledge

Do you understand the employer is suggesting the OP gets 6 hours a day for 20 days compared to 7.5 hours for 25 days. The OP is still working 5 days a week.

Are you really saying that is fair?

Dagnabit · 26/10/2022 18:36

YANBU - when I was part time, my leave was calculated in hours and bank holiday entitlement added on. I then booked the hours I needed and any bank holidays that fell on my working days. When I went to full time it was worked out in days but this year, they have moved everyone to hours because there are so many working variations now, it was turning into a nightmare for HR!

Panapan · 26/10/2022 18:46

I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding you. I work 80% and get 80% holiday but because I work 4 days, I still get the same number of weeks annual leave as someone working full time. You shouldn’t be penalised because you’ve chosen to work 80% over 5 days - as others have said, to take a day off you should only have to take 0.8 of a day.