To feel like this about tradespeople...

[Glitterlikeawinner]

Ignoring calls and messages, saying they'll give you and quote and then don't, say they're going to come round and then don't.....so unbelievably fed up!!

I'm sure this is very common and quite normal behaviour from what I can gather from friends and family experience but why oh why do tradespeople treat people like this? In any other business this is a sure fire way of not getting custom but this apparently is quite normal?

Since we initially started our extension planning journey in Oct 2020 we have so far done, nothing. We had plans drawn and planning permission that took a whole year to complete (architect and structural engineer dragging heels and constant chasing to resolve). Builders quoting insane amounts for whole build (despite asking architect to do drawings to meet our budget) so we ask if we can do it in phases, they said sure then no one has come back with phase 1 and phase 2 prices. I suspect because they want the big job at once.

In the meantime I've tried to get quotes for plasterers to do ad hoc jobs around house, 1 showed up and never did a quote, another one said they were coming and never did. Same with a carpenter, said he was coming and didn't bother.

I've followed up with messages to see if they want to rearrange and then never hear anything. Feel like we've been on a first date and now I'm being ghosted!

Is this disorganisation, picking and choosing jobs or standard behaviour we have to accept as part of any building work and I just need to keep chasing?

Honestly it's driving me to tears! We have the money to do the work and we're just stuck here doing nothing! Never done any major building work so this is all new to us but it's getting me so down!

Appreciate there are likely good tradespeople out there who treat customers well, but I'm yet to find one I'm afraid! Sorry for the rant!!

We’ve had exactly the same issues. Desperately need roof to be repaired and have arranged about 10 roofers to quote, only 2 have turned up and have given very different quotes - which they both seem reluctant to even do the work?
we need loads of building work doing but can’t get anyone to actually quote or get back to us after. The one time we found someone to do our kitchen they ripped us off

I've been very fortunate & not had this happen, but I know it does, all the time. :-(
Can you ask anyone (colleagues etc) to recommend anyone?
Alternatively, I go on local FB groups & ask people there to recommend. That works for me every time. Good luck!

It's because there is a lack of people with the relevant experience and they can pick and choose jobs based on their own needs.

I'm no expert but I think this is caused by skilled people from Europe heading home after brexit (who can blame them??) and failure to train apprentices at the relevant stage.

Add to this lack of building materials making jobs more expensive and difficult to perform.

I know what I'm advising my future kids to do!!!

YANBU. I am sick of people saying they'll come out to quote, waiting in for them and then they don't turn up. If you don't want the work, just say so! In other job if you didn't turn up to a planned meeting or appointment you'd be sacked.

Personal recommendation is the best way. If you ask on Facebook people just recommend their mates without necessarily knowing what their work is like.
Also, don’t always go with the cheapest quote. I have a brilliant decorator. He isn’t the cheapest but he’s a grafter and a perfectionist, so I know the work will be done on time and to a high standard. That’s worth paying for.
However, the least said about the ‘highly recommended’ (by his mates) bathroom fitter I used, the better.
For a big job, like an extension, ask them for references. They should be able to give you the names and phone numbers of a couple of their clients who you can ask about their workmanship and to see the end result.

I don't think it's all down to brexit tbh. They've been mostly awful for all the years I've owned a house. I don't know how they survive going round pissing off potential customers.

I know what you mean. When we got our patio done it took months to get a couple of quotes. Then we were just ghosted by everyone apart from the most expensive guy. To be fair he did an absolutely fantastic job but it was like pulling teeth in the beginning!

They get away with it because of the shortages caused by 20 years of encouraging everyone with half a brain to go to Uni and the systemic removal of the long standing tried and tested method of "real" apprenticeships to be replaced by college based modern apprenticeships which are, generally, pretty poor and lacking in the realities of work in the trades. That's left a void which is being filled with people not really cut out to run their own businesses and barely competent to do the work.

Customers are desperate so will put up with all kinds of crap just to get the work done.

The difference between an older, experienced, properly trained tradesman compared with the younger/drossier ones is staggering. Not only in quality of workmanship, but also in attitude, cleanliness/tidiness, reliability, behaviour, etc.

Unfortunately, "technical" schools are looked down upon by parents who are convinced that their Jeremy has to go to Uni because he's so bright, so it's another one with a degree in Coronation Street working minimum wage in a call centre! We had a "new" technically based secondary school near us - cost millions to build - it closed within a few years due to low numbers of pupils!

I'm an accountant, I have many clients, such as garage owners, electricians, plumbers, builders, joiners, etc., NONE of whom have an apprentice. They were, themselves, all time served apprentices who worked for other "one man bands" when they left school. They've all considered taking on modern apprentices, so have taken someone on but quickly got rid citing lack of "proper" training/teaching at college, too much paperwork, kids who wouldn't do the dirty work, kids expecting to be able to re-wire a house in their first week (i.e. complete inability to accept that it takes a few years of experience to become fully competent) etc.

From friends in trades, they observe people struggling to get or retain real apprentices - there's a culture of hazing and teasing apprentices thats seen as normal that i think perhaps more modern teenagers/early twenties might get hacked off at, plus he comes across a lot of people who get frustrated at their apprentice not being able to do something when they've only spent 2 minutes showing them how, or not shown them at all and expect them to just know the right way to do it. Someone who is a great brickie might not be a great teacher. There are some lovely outfits out there though, we are lucky in our area but you are right, it does seem incredibly hit and miss.

YANBU. I suspect part of the problem is somewhere along the way, they're not learning the soft skills they need to run businesses, e.g. the organisation and admin side of what they're doing. Time management.

We've sent so many kids to university to do useless, abstract academic courses (myself included) which qualified us to make coffee or stack shelves, and some of us would have been the top-notch tradespeople of bygone decades. The older ones are all retiring, leaving the kids who didn't do well at school to fix your boiler, and a few good eggs.

Tony Blair apparently didn't see this coming with his 50% in university pledge. Would have been better to achieve it by designing more high-level courses useful for tradies and not pushing people into wasting their student loan allocation immediately after school, and not advising people that "you can do anything you want" like the world needs infinite people with philosophy or media studies degrees (again before anyone jumps on me, I got sold this lie as well).

I wish I'd done a trade out of school. There's a massive shortage of courses presumably due to a shortage of qualified tutors and the restrictions on funding and unreasonable expectations of employment mean very few people qualify to even start the courses.

Definitely not wholly down to Brexit. We've had trouble getting reliable/decent tradesmen ever since we bought our house 25 years ago! I've no doubt Brexit made it worse, but from our experiences of Polish and Bulgarian tradesmen, they may have actually turned up, but their quality of workmanship was pretty poor (One group were painters who painted our exterior in a day, but it needed re-doing within a year, another group did some roof repairs which made the leak worse and then suddenly disappeared and never returned our phone calls!).

I think it’s partly in issue with the education system. All students are now pushed towards university degree courses, and very few see a trade as a respectable career option. This means that there is a shortage of good tradespeople, and those who are good have more work than they can handle. You may need to find people who are good, but then be patient and wait until they can fit your job in.

Personal recommendation. Only way to go. I live in a village and use local guys with a good reputation. Never been let down yet - and that includes builder, plumber, joiner, electrician, plasterer, slater, tiler, chimney sweep, architect, painter and plasterer.

I fully understand people being too busy for all the interest they get and being able to pick and choose jobs, but even if they're not interested in what I'm looking for this time, the next job I have might be a lot more appealing - and if someone outright ignores me then I'm not going to approach them again. It only takes a few seconds to send a courteous, "Sorry, but I'm too busy to take this on" email.

Qe rarely have problems because we use local people We know. Sometimes we pay marginally more, but that is offset by reliability and a job well done.
Having an annexe built at the moment and the team are fabulous. Courteous, hardworking, tidy, considerate.

A few have been recommendations from friends, one was even the husband of a distant friend who never showed up.

After no luck with carpenter I posted on local Facebook group only for said carpenter to message as if I was a new contact and said he could help with work! He recently posted on the same group looking for work and there was a raft of people commenting asking if he would respond to their messages so I wonder if it's sheer disorganisation!

Agree though, in any other business you don't just not show up for a meeting. I almost wish there was a major 'brand' of builders who are all managed centrally like any other business with reputation and customer service as standard. Like going to ATS for your car! I just need a quote, the work doing and some guarantee that work isn't shoddy. Is that too much to ask!

bonzaitree
I'm no expert but I think this is caused by skilled people from Europe heading home after brexit (who can blame them??) and failure to train apprentices at the relevant stage.

I considered becoming a plumber at one point. I gave up after discovering that there are few formal routes into the profession. You generally need to convince someone to take you on as an apprentice. I think it isn’t considered financially worthwhile to take on apprentices, or maybe it’s too much hassle. Without contacts I would have struggled to get someone to take me on, especially not being the typical young white man candidate.

So yes, there is a shortage of tradespeople but there also seems to be little government incentive to change the status quo.

Because they’re in demand, they can choose the jobs they want to do. I’m sure I’ve read on here, that if a tradesman doesn’t want a job, the quote will be astronomical. Either that, or they have too much work and have to put people off somehow.

I also agree that the notion that 50% of people should go to university has done a great disservice to many trades. Some of the degrees aren’t worth the paper they’re written on and quite a percentage of people would be better learning a trade from the outset, rather than racking up debt, to then be unable to get a job relevant to the degree.

Word of mouth is the only way to go with tradespeople. And not just a mate who has a brother who is a plasterer or similar. You need to know how much they paid, how fast it was completed, and see the standard of the work.

Just to add, I had one builders arrive in a brand new top of the range, Range Rover, personalised plates etc. Certainly seemed to be doing well for himself!

As someone myself who was pushed through the university route and now in a professional career that my degree was useless for, I'll certainly be encouraging my kids into apprenticeships, or vocational degrees! Son or daughter, if they want to do a trade I'd be more than happy to encourage them here as they can earn just as much if not more than other careers!

I agree IME I've yet to come across an organised and efficient builder.

I have a close pal who's a builder and it blows my mind how many wasted days they have due to being 'rained off' despite having other indoor jobs they could do but which weren't intended to start for a few months.

When we did our bathroom we had to choose between someone who was more reliable but not flexible to our needs (trying to push his ideas that were easy and quick to do) vs someone who was highly skilled and creative but less reliable. We went with the less reliable one who achieved the end result we desired but worked at unsociable hours out of choice as opposed to necessity (would turn up at 2pm and leave after 10pm)

Yep, nail on the head. One of my classmates at school was literally "top of the class" in most subjects (but it was a crap comp!) The teachers/career adviser(!) couldn't understand why he wasn't going to Uni, but he insisted he was going to be a plumber!

30 years later and he's the one with a fleet of vans, several staff, and the million pound house (still in a crap run down area so one of the biggest houses in the area!). He did his apprenticeship with a one man band, got his Corgi (Now GasSafe), also did his electrical qualification as an apprentice. After a few years, he set up on his own with a clapped out van, but built it up. We had a boiler replaced by him 20 years ago - never experienced such workmanship - his pipework was a work of art, he did the electrics himself which again were perfect - he even used a spirit level to make sure the pipes/wires were all exactly vertical and horizontal. Brought his own vacuum to clean up after himself. And for the finale, he asked us if he wanted us to paint the visible pipes before he put everything back in place as it would be easier whilst it was all accessible! What's more is that he's 100% professional, answers his phone, comes when he says he will, provides a written quote within a few days, starts the work on schedule, etc etc. It's not rocket science!

Suddenly his decision not to go to Uni makes sense! Unfortunately, these days, the "trades" seems to be the go-to place for people with poor qualifications, whereas the reality, to do the job properly, you do need a good brain, good organisation/admin skills, etc.

It's not just builders. A lot of civil contracting firms are the same. If they can't do what they planned on a certain date (either weather, faulty equipment, materials not delivered, etc), they just either sit around all day doing nothing or just go home early. They price in the "down days" in their costing/quotations, so they know they're getting paid anyway, so aren't remotely bothered that they're not doing anything! There seems to be no thought as to what they "can" do that day (or week) - it's basically a binary choice of "can we do it or not", and if not, then it's a skiving day!

It's a gift from Brexit land

I don't think it's Brexit.

There's loads of tradesmen in Ireland but finding one that is free to work is difficult.

It's a booming industry.

My Dbro is a mortgage free millionaire from trade work he is a builder, he's 50.