To feel like this about tradespeople...

[Glitterlikeawinner]

Ignoring calls and messages, saying they'll give you and quote and then don't, say they're going to come round and then don't.....so unbelievably fed up!!

I'm sure this is very common and quite normal behaviour from what I can gather from friends and family experience but why oh why do tradespeople treat people like this? In any other business this is a sure fire way of not getting custom but this apparently is quite normal?

Since we initially started our extension planning journey in Oct 2020 we have so far done, nothing. We had plans drawn and planning permission that took a whole year to complete (architect and structural engineer dragging heels and constant chasing to resolve). Builders quoting insane amounts for whole build (despite asking architect to do drawings to meet our budget) so we ask if we can do it in phases, they said sure then no one has come back with phase 1 and phase 2 prices. I suspect because they want the big job at once.

In the meantime I've tried to get quotes for plasterers to do ad hoc jobs around house, 1 showed up and never did a quote, another one said they were coming and never did. Same with a carpenter, said he was coming and didn't bother.

I've followed up with messages to see if they want to rearrange and then never hear anything. Feel like we've been on a first date and now I'm being ghosted!

Is this disorganisation, picking and choosing jobs or standard behaviour we have to accept as part of any building work and I just need to keep chasing?

Honestly it's driving me to tears! We have the money to do the work and we're just stuck here doing nothing! Never done any major building work so this is all new to us but it's getting me so down!

Appreciate there are likely good tradespeople out there who treat customers well, but I'm yet to find one I'm afraid! Sorry for the rant!!

I don't find them to be professional or act in a professional manner. Ds2 isn't academic and learning a trade would have been perfect for him, but he has aspergers and they'd have eaten him for breakfast so he can't do it. A lot of them are rude and can barely string a sentence together. The country needs a more diverse range of people learning trades so that the more conscientious and intelligent types aren't put off doing it. The best tradesman I know is a privately educated, ex military officer and he's very professional and provides an excellent service.

@bonzaitree he always said he would go do a trade if made redundant and gas engineering was what he set his sights on. He found a local training centre who did a fast track course and started as soon as he finished his old job and qualified eight months later.
It was a case of now or never because we wouldn't have been able to afford to do it if he hadn't been made redundant. He's also fortunate enough to have had steady work in between working for a mate. That has really come into its own as when he tried to get a job after qualifying he was being offered an apprentice wage only. The only option for him was to go self employed. It's a good job he's clever and a quick learner so he had the confidence to do that.

You can't even get your carpet cleaned here within 5 months, all fully booked. Its easier just to get a new carpet.
And don't even think about leaving ANY tradesmen on their own to do the work. You will come back to a shitshow.
I only use locally recommended tradesmen here who are a very small group and have done work for me before.
I'm in my 60's and I soon let them know not to take me for an elderly fool.

I think people fail to see all the quotes and visits that are provided out of hours, working late at night and at weekends to produce these, just to have people reject them to save a few £s to get a better deal.

Or worse, fail to pay at the end of the job, citing all sorts and threatening social media if you don't accept their lower offer.

Not everyone is like this but it puts you off and makes you pick and choose the jobs you want to do. Especially if it's going to be a hassle job or if the customer starts off with attitude.

Regarding the posh car...he may only have a van, it may be his wife's? People are really quick to presume with builders!

@Bestcatmum

And don't even think about leaving ANY tradesmen on their own to do the work. You will come back to a shitshow.

Yes, a hard lesson to learn. We're happy to leave a tradesmen whose already done previous work for us, but we don't leave even them for too long and even with them, we always double check before they start working so that they know exactly what we want.

Anyone we've not used before and we stay in and watch what they're doing.

Far too many times they've either completely gone off-piste or just botch it up. Like when we had our decking replaced, and the two guys from a very well respected local decking/shed firm made a right botch of it. They didn't cut down the newell posts to size, which stood at about 5 feet above deck level and looked ridiculous, they fitted planks which were clearly warped, the handrail they fitted had a huge gouge in it. Every time we looked out of our back window, we could see something else they were botching. It was just excuse after excuse from them - apparently the newell post regulations meant they had to be 5 feet high (rubbish), the warped planks would flatten out (rubbish), the handrail could easily be filled (which they expected us to do). After a call to the owner, they basically took it all apart again and spent another day doing it a second time, properly this time!

Married to a builder/contractor. Trust me, not all tradesmen are unreliable like the ones you’ve described. However, to give the other side of this debate there are a few things he really dislikes about certain clients and usually will not take these jobs on:

• anyone that will not tell him their budget for the work they want done. Nothing more frustrating than visiting a client, measuring up, talking about what they want and different options, going home and contacting suppliers, subcontractors getting lead times for materials etc. writing it all up in a detailed quote only for the client to say “sorry, it’s way over what we’d budgeted”. It just wastes everyone’s time.
• people that state they want “a quality job at a realistic price” i.e. they have unrealistic expectations of what things cost and basically want a complex job completed as cheap as possible.
• fixing other builders poor workmanship. Often these mean completely re-doing the work and most people are (understandably) very unhappy at having to pay twice, or even more, for the outcome to be the same as what it should have been in the first place.

My DH is expensive but has nothing but great reviews and happy clients. I was also guilty of thinking that builders ripped people off a lot of the time but have completely changed my opinion because honestly, most people just don’t understand how much work is involved in seemingly “simple” jobs. My DH charges a lot but this allows him to pay his team/apprentices/subcontractors great wages and this basically means he has respect from others in his industry and people will go out of their way to do a good job for him. It also means he rarely has flaky people working for him which therefore means jobs are completed on time and clients are happy. Sometimes it’s worth paying the expensive builder.

As an aside, we’ve worked with numerous architects and some are much better than others (like any job) but there are a lot that wildly underestimate the cost of a build. I would take anything an architect says about cost with a pinch of salt.

It's the sole traders who do this in my experience. I assume it's tax/universal credit related with some as I've had some request cash only as payment, and they're able to pick and choose the minimum work.

We had a nightmare trying to find a decent plumber for this reason. Went to a large, professional firm in the end with no problems.

Don’t be ridiculous. This is a very ignorant post and considering you have a child that is different I would have thought you would be more aware of negatively stereotyping people. I know both a plumber and a plasterer who have children with significant needs and I can’t think of a single person who would behave in a cruel manner towards anyone with a disability. To say that most tradespeople “can barely string a sentence together” is appalling. Shame on you.

Absolutely this! It is so bloody frustrating when they don't turn up in the first place or come to quote but don't ever get back to you.

Im not going to get upset if you tell me you can't do it/don't want the job, I'll just find someone else.

If someone quotes I will always go back to them to book it in or say thanks but we've decided to go elsewhere, I'll happily make tea while they are here and I pay them as soon as I get an invoice, all of which I consider common courtesy. It's really irritating that so many of them are just so rude in return

So glad to see your comment from another POV as a fellow tradies wife, my husband has been SE for just over a year and he's constantly on the go. He's only one man fitting, installing or making everything from sometimes light timber work to mostly full kitchens. His phone rings constantly but if he stopped to answer it everytime he wouldn't get any work done at all. I have no doubt he has ppl he needs to get back to but he's exhausted when he gets home and we have young kids.
OP I get what you're saying and I sympathise but just something to think about if you are using small businesses.

If it’s any consolation ( probably isn’t) we had a house in France for 15 years, and at that time it was much, much worse there! It was a middle class, mainly residential almost exclusively French area, so not holiday home dominated.

The waiting lists to get anything done were horrendous, the ‘best’ local’ plumber came to look at the job , quoted for it and when we accepted told us it would be three years! Fitting kitchens or bathrooms, at least six months after paying the first deposit ( same for French friends, not just anti British messing about). It was cheaper and quicker to buy expensive equipment to do a specific job if you could manage it than get someone to do it.

Friends told us that it was because the French system of employment protection and privileges made it very expensive to hire anyone, and very difficult to get rid of them if they were no good. My bathroom fitter told me that in the UK, there are now similar disincentives to taking on apprentices or less experienced people , which didn’t used to be the case.

As someone who is married to a builder (been in the business the past 30 years and now wants out of it)
Most builders are not disorganized the are actually very good project managers. The reason why they delayed is situations beyond their control, materials not in stock , windows are not on site yet and the weather. They are doing this for years and know what timelines to put in etc. They most certainly do not sit around and doss for the day. There is always tidying paperwork etc to be done
Most people really have no concept how of much things cost or how long it takes. They think that by providing materials themselves etc should make things cheaper however they are normally of poor quality or not the preferred make the builder uses. Example is someone who provided tile adhesive to lay down tiles for a house that had under floor heating, you need a special type of adhesive for underfloor heating or else tiles will left. Can't be brought back as bought on sale in a place three and a half hour drive away. Same client bought plumbing in same area . all of sub standard quality. All because he thought the builders quote (who can claim the vat back) was too high. It actually cost him more as preferred brand not in stock and wanted it done that day so had to buy more expensive brand.
Here in Ireland the trend for house builds, is that the people who want the house build to arrange everything and subcontract it out to different people as a self build as opposed to hiring a builder and project manager to do it for them. They don't realize that this takes time to do. They dont have the skills or expertise on what is required. They get in trades people normally based on the cehapest . Where a builder or project manager normally has a pool of people they use who they know what their quality is like and more importantly they know what standard to leave it for the next person - This is himself biggest bug bear, hates going in to a place to do a jib that has been left in a mess or badly done by the person before him
Years of in the trade means you can spot the people who are going to be tyre kickers or not so he will be upfront with them if he can do it. He is expensive but he is a perfectionist so standard and finish is very high . Also honest and will tell you the best way to do it or if you are wasting your time. Its back breaking work, he is only in late 40's but is broke up not able to do much anymore. Paperwork is horrendous, quotes take hours on end and most of the time its a waste of time, but you cant charge for quotes. We are lucky we can afford to pay some one to do the books, but not on the admin side so that is done between us on top of wok and life, struggle big time on staff side, no one young wants to do it the few we have had the past few years realize its hard work, so end up either going back to college or working in easier jobs. He will always though return someones call

Sounds amazing. Good luck to him!

Well said @Wexone , a good builder is expensive because they know what they are doing , just like a top surgeon is paid more
You are paying for their knowledge , skill and expertise
@Glitterlikeawinner so why bother mentioning it then , are you surprised they can actually earn a decent wage without a degree ? You know by hard slog

Absolutely spot on.

@DoTheHoochyPoochy no not surprised at all, merely adding to comments earlier that being pushed into university education in order to be successful financially is certainly not the case / only route to being financially successful.

Clearly this has hit a nerve so I'm sorry if this has offended you in some way, but please read messages fully to understand context before responding so viciously....

DH is a plasterer - now self-employed but he used to be a contractor for a large building firm.

There are all sorts of issues at the moment - supply issues, increased costs (which customers are reluctant to pay), and, most importantly, high demand and not enough workers.

He works long days, comes home exhausted, and, probably most importantly, went into the trades because he struggled with school, has ADHD and wasn't remotely academic. I think that's fairly common of people his age and older - and therefore they struggle with the admin side.

Replying to messages takes a while as he struggles with spelling and grammar. He's disorganised and forgets to reply to things, or won't reply if he thinks it won't lead to work, or if the customer has a bad reputation amongst the community for being cheap or a PITA.

Despite all that, he's fully booked so employing someone to do it for him seems a bit pointless when he has work coming out of his ears. I help when I can but I run my own business and have my own admin to do

It’s hard. We have been trying to get a plumber to quote for new radiators for weeks.

My mums partner is a tiler and is really good he has done work in my house and other family members. But he does almost all of his work at building sites as a contractor. They pay top dollar as they have people moving in and the work needs done on time, and they don’t want things being picked up for poor quality. He doesn’t have the hassle of customers wanting to source their own materials, changing their mind or having to work around loads of random plumbers/joiners/ electricians. He almost always finds private customers are reluctant to pay for his time in the same way a building site would, so why would he bother?

I think it's a combination of brexit, and covid backlog.
I work in property management and have a list of contractors for versions trade types that I have used for a long time and the past 6-9 months have been the most difficult ever for getting trades to quote for jobs. It's a constant struggle.

In my industry there have been at least 4 big all trades contractors used by companies similar to mine that have all gone bust during or immediately following covid lockdowns, and this has put a lot of pressure on the remaining local trades. A company of my size would usually look for large-mid size trade companies where they have several employees for each trade type, but we are now forced to look at sole traders etc due to the larger ones going bust as well.

I'm sure if this was on a trades forum there would be an equal number of complaints about nightmare customers, time wasters, supply problems and finding time to do quotes/ order materials etc.

DH runs a small business/trade although for commercial clients not domestic. When he's on site he will do a 10 hour day plus travel, collecting and loading materials etc, then be doing quotes, planning, invoicing etc in the evenings. He's fairly good at this having worked previously in an office job. But appreciate you may be calling someone who's up a ladder, knee deep in concrete or with armfuls of tools and their pencil and notebook are in the van.

Also clients who think they have paid for your full time attendance on their job will complain if you "sod off" to do something else so you might literally not be able to visit another prospective job for some weeks.

The main thing is just that the good trades people are in demand due to shortages mentioned above, and have more work offered than they can take on.

He did his apprenticeship with a one man band, got his Corgi (Now GasSafe), also did his electrical qualification as an apprentice. After a few years, he set up on his own with a clapped out van, but built it up. We had a boiler replaced by him 20 years ago - never experienced such workmanship - his pipework was a work of art, he did the electrics himself which again were perfect - he even used a spirit level to make sure the pipes/wires were all exactly vertical and horizontal. Brought his own vacuum to clean up after himself. And for the finale, he asked us if he wanted us to paint the visible pipes before he put everything back in place as it would be easier whilst it was all accessible! What's more is that he's 100% professional, answers his phone, comes when he says he will, provides a written quote within a few days, starts the work on schedule, etc etc

My DP is also self employed as a Plumbing & Heating Engineer. Same thing - apprenticeship with a one man band. He has the exact same approach; reliable, cleans up after himself (also brings his own vacuum!), always professional, clear quotes and has excellent reviews from his customers. He’s also the Worcester Bosch accredited installer for his area. Been working in the trade for over 25 years.

He work’s hard, pays out money every few years to sit exams to ensure his qualifications are up to date and stay Gas Safe registered, plus giving exceptional customer service and aftercare. He has a successful business because of it.

It’s incredibly frustrating for him to see so many poor tradesmen out there, because he is the polar opposite to these guys.

@Glitterlikeawinner I'm not responding viciously at all . You are responding as though you're surprised that 'trade' are actually paid the same as someone who has a degree
Both study just as hard , if a trade fails they can be sued , you fail an exam you can mostly repeat it
You haven't touched a nerve , but your attitude stinks , again why mention their car or reg if it has no relevance ?

Quite common and frustrating. We had a man to quote for a new fence and booked him in. He then messaged to say he could not do the work as he had a broken ankle. He must’ve forgot his firm was on Instagram, where he photographed himself in the mirror of a new summer house he’d just put up. The ankle looked fine.

@DoTheHoochyPoochy Again, no I'm not surprised at all and (as I've previously clarified) was adding to earlier messages that there is a lack of tradespeople available because in recent years university was pushed to school leavers as the way to progress and get the best / highest paying jobs, and I was merely stating that from what I observed when said builder arrived in a fancy car, that this would, from a visual assumption, support the argument that trades should not be considered as a less financially successful route and he appeared to be very successful.

It was not a dig, I didn't mock, I was not horrified by this, I was not being disrespectful of tradespeople being lower paid, but again as I mentioned, adding to context of earlier discussions so I'm not sure how my 'attitude stinks'.

I'm also not sure why you think trades are the only careers that can be sued?! Can a Dr not be sued for negligence, can ANY manager not be taken to an employment tribunal, can any person in charge of a business not be taken to court for manslaughter where they are liable for H&S of employees?

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.....

Thanks everyone else for your more helpful input, it's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one to have this experience but equally it's been really insightful hearing from the other side of the fence and those with husbands and family members in the trade, so thank you for this!!

I think the hardest thing when there is radio silence from a tradesperson is to understand, have they just forgotten to get back to me and are interested in the job or is this a signal that they don't want to know and I should move on. Maybe being up front both ways works, and I should just ask the question if they are too busy at the moment to look at the job or its not something they are interested in doing.

Honestly, this has been really insightful and I'm thankful for all your input 🙏

This is so true. I know lads who are making £150 - £200 a day who would have been working at a biscuit factory a couple of generations ago.
Totally incompetent, barely literate.
The reasonably clever or just "sensible" kids they went to school with were encouraged into low paid office type work ( obviously it wasn't sold to them this way) New Labour's legacy.