To feel like this about tradespeople...

[Glitterlikeawinner]

Ignoring calls and messages, saying they'll give you and quote and then don't, say they're going to come round and then don't.....so unbelievably fed up!!

I'm sure this is very common and quite normal behaviour from what I can gather from friends and family experience but why oh why do tradespeople treat people like this? In any other business this is a sure fire way of not getting custom but this apparently is quite normal?

Since we initially started our extension planning journey in Oct 2020 we have so far done, nothing. We had plans drawn and planning permission that took a whole year to complete (architect and structural engineer dragging heels and constant chasing to resolve). Builders quoting insane amounts for whole build (despite asking architect to do drawings to meet our budget) so we ask if we can do it in phases, they said sure then no one has come back with phase 1 and phase 2 prices. I suspect because they want the big job at once.

In the meantime I've tried to get quotes for plasterers to do ad hoc jobs around house, 1 showed up and never did a quote, another one said they were coming and never did. Same with a carpenter, said he was coming and didn't bother.

I've followed up with messages to see if they want to rearrange and then never hear anything. Feel like we've been on a first date and now I'm being ghosted!

Is this disorganisation, picking and choosing jobs or standard behaviour we have to accept as part of any building work and I just need to keep chasing?

Honestly it's driving me to tears! We have the money to do the work and we're just stuck here doing nothing! Never done any major building work so this is all new to us but it's getting me so down!

Appreciate there are likely good tradespeople out there who treat customers well, but I'm yet to find one I'm afraid! Sorry for the rant!!

Yes, absolute travesty isn't it! The current generation of younger workers have been screwed over in so many ways. Yes, they've been sold the lie that "success" means going to Uni and getting a degree. Then they get spat out and end up working in call centres or supermarkets or warehouses. When if they'd been encouraged to follow a different route, many would have a more rewarding/lucrative career in manual work (lots of which now also requires a brain, such as electricians and plumbers who have to do exams and need to be able to understand pretty complex matters such as complicated electrics/plumbing/gas installations etc).

I saw it first hand with my son. His sixth form tutor was adamant that he should chose a Uni he liked the look of, and a degree in a subject he was interested in! Absolutely zilch about which degrees led to which careers, which Unis had better reputations among employers, etc. At a parents evening, we were talking to her about uni/subject choice and I mentioned we'd all been reviewing league tables for employability and looking at Unis and which had good/solid links with top employers and she basically exploded at us and told us all that was irrelevant and Uni was all about the "experience", enjoying himself, making friends, etc., and then trotted out the tired old line that she'd had previous pupils who've done a music degree end up as top barristers in London! Yeah, as if everyone is going to have that kind of door opening up to them. Luckily, DS basically ignored her and is happy doing a financial maths degree and looking at relevant jobs in the financial services industry!

Yes, its a strange state of affairs. The education system isn't really producing the workers that the economy needs for a host of reasons.
There's also a middle class obsession with " The Professions" which our country also suffers from.
There are huge numbers of kids in this country that achieve A's and A* but they often seem to be trying to be barrister / lawyer types.
UK PLC really needs some of these very bright kids to go into industry ( and bring some family money with them!) but it is an alien concept now.
I suppose we're trying to wind the clock back.
Well done for looking out for your son , sounds like he has a great mum.

I think it goes right back to the abolition of grammar schools and sec mod/technical schools when they merged into being "comps".

The emphasis in "comps" has been academic and I think the "technical"/"manual" side has been side-lined, which is fine for the kids capable of achieving decent GCSEs (or O levels back in the day), but has alienated the kids who'd be more suited to manual/trades, i.e. the ones who are disenfranchised in comps and end up leaving with little/no qualifications and/or cause disruption in the classrooms.

Perhaps more thought/effort should have gone into the "borderline" pupils i.e. those who just missed the 11+ boundary who found themselves in technical/sec mod schools when they maybe could have benefitted from academic education, and even the other way, i.e. kids who passed the 11+ but weren't academic and would have preferred a more manual/hands on kind of education.

I lived through that, I went to a Comp which had just converted from a grammar the year before, so were "sold the lie" that we'd all get a quality grammar education, when in fact the opposite was true, the school wasn't good for either the academic nor the non academic pupils, it was a mis match and quickly became a "sink school" during the few years I was there. You could see the deterioration in standards, discipline, behaviour, etc., as each year new yearly intake came in. Despite it having woodwork and metalwork workshops as a grammar, they weren't used as a comp and those rooms were converted into normal classrooms, so the "comp" pupils didn't have the option to do any "manual" subjects like that!

This is totally my experience, except for a wonderful chap who is desperately trying to retire but his old clients won't let him. He's so professional with very high standards and could easily charge double what he does.

Yes, I've often wondered just how they get away with it. Won't wast time repeating what pps have said...we know the usual problems.

This is a horrible thing to say, and I do know that there are good people out there, but I was a secondary teacher and I find myself thinking 'I wonder what happens to those boys who come in kicking chairs/desks, scowl at you, swear under their breath, chuck books and equipment around and can't be arsed to ever put any effort into anything?' I suspect they might have migrated into the building/plumbing trades. OK, I admit that's harsh, but some of the people I've come across have no clue about professional standards or even common courtesy - from the way they treat the customer (me) and my home.

They're self-employed, and we need them more than they need us, but don't they have the personal pride to cultivate SOME professionalism?? And the casual sexism and rudeness is inexcusable. But why should they care?

I'd love to have a trade. However I feel I'm too old to retrain now and also couldn't afford not to work to retrain.

This is the crux of the problem, that student loans/finance is only available for school leaving age people. Ideally something similar should be available for all, to finance course fees and living costs later in life for those who didn't take out loans/finance when they were younger.

I wish I'd trained in a trade! I'll definitely be encouraging my dc to do so if they want - uni certainly isn't the only path in life.

Ad far as getting workman in, I've had solar difficulties and have taught myself various DIY skills as a result. Fixing toilet, boiler, tiling the wall, etc etc. It's the only way I've been able to get the jobs done.

How would you define professionalism?

If we know costs are wildly variable.
Timescales are wildly variable.
Looks at HS2, an engineering/building project. Delay, delays, delays, cost, cost, cost.
Even premium projects are hard to pin down to definites. What chance does an individual sole trader have or even a small company? Any delays can cause the diary to implode.

@RedAppleGirl

How would you define professionalism?

How about the basics?

Turn up/ring when agreed
Reply to phone/email messages within a few days
Let us know if there are to be any delays
Don't lie about reasons why they don't turn up
Do the work to a reasonably competent standard
Treat a customers' home with respect

@RedAppleGirl
How would you define professionalism?
How about the basics?
Turn up/ring when agreed
Reply to phone/email messages within a few days
Let us know if there are to be any delays
Don't lie about reasons why they don't turn up
Do the work to a reasonably competent standard
Treat a customers' home with respect

Kazzyhoward - I think you've nailed it - was just going to type pretty much the same list. In other words - hardly onerous or unreasonable.

Good communication, as Kazzy has said
Courtesy in dealing with customers: but some of the nastier ones I've had really seem to see it as 'losing face' to be polite - so bizarre. Granted, they were the monkeys, not the organ grinder, but they must surely see that it could impact them personally?
Be straight with customers: if the job is too small, or you won't be able to do it for 6 months - then SAY SO! Don't keep people with problems hanging on pointlessly.
Remember, above all, that you are on someone else's territory - their home, their safe space. Do not trample mud, knock it about, throw things etc etc. And do an interim tidy before leaving each day - it takes 5 mins.
I've had lots of cases where I get people in do to a job and they trash a previous, expensive piece of work - eg paintwork, new carpets
Don't try to pressure me into paying you cash and saying 'We don't want the taxman to get it, do we?' Well, actually, I do want 'the taxman' to get it - how do they think the NHS etc is paid for? I've always had to pay tax!!

As I said, I've had a couple of gems working on jobs, but I've also had horrible men I've actually been afraid of in my own home, they were so gruff and rude. Went out to offer some scaffolders a cuppa and got laughed at for my voice (bit RP) and looked up and down very creepily. Delightful! I didn't offer again and I did complain to the company, but I'm sure they all had a laddish laugh about it. Sigh.

Missing my point, the very nature of the work is wildly variable.
We have 2 parties.
Tradesperson has full knowledge, experience and expectations.
Customer has no knowledge, no understanding, high expectations.
So oft, I can't find anyone has an underlying meaning, such as within a specific budget for example or timescale.

I honestly believe the issue is the nature of the work re time management and costs.
Most sole traders should be able to charge enough to employ a third party to manage the business. I think especially in this country trades are viewed as being low cost and the end customer suffers as a result. We've been conditioned to believe these assumptions.

This was a problem even 22 years ago when I moved into my current house. Always told DD she should train as a plasterer as they were in such high demand, massive waiting list just to organise for someone to come and quote.

(DD just didn’t fancy it, shame).

DH is a tradesman and he has always turned up when said and always quotes within a couple of days following this. There are some out there like him have you tried the find a builder app?

Yanbu op. It's completely shit. Tradespeople are like gold dust round here, have been for years (dacades) and they all charge a fortune. In their defence though, they do seem to be working all hours god sends.
I don't know who these builders/plumbers etc who claimed they couldn't get any work because of EU Tradespeople. I can only think that they must have been so shit at the job, even the desperate didn't want to employ them.

Unbelievable!!!!!

We are currently looking for a roofer for 2 jobs (probs circa £1000) total, so not a cheap job and I’ve taken 2 days off from work to be home for quotes and nobody turns up.

My brother is a plasterer. He left school at 14 to train and is very successful in that he outearns all of us his siblings who took more professional paths and went to Uni etc. He regularly doesn’t turn up for jobs, and has been known to leave a job in the middle of the day to go home for a sleep. At nearly 40 he has never ever struggled for work and always seems to be inundated with it. Astonishing considering his antics.

I have a bright son who I am hoping doesn’t enter the trades as from what I can gather many of them including my brother have all ended up as functioning alcoholics due to the drinking after work culture. It’s a working class game let’s be honest and I think my son is too bright for it. If he wasn’t very bright I would be pushing him towards it. I mean it’s not badly paid is it? I do feel it’s a waste though as all the white van men that I know, whilst financially doing okay, all seem to fit a certain mould whereby they decline faster into old age.

I have a bright son who I am hoping doesn’t enter the trades as from what I can gather many of them including my brother have all ended up as functioning alcoholics due to the drinking after work culture. It’s a working class game let’s be honest and I think my son is too bright for it. If he wasn’t very bright I would be pushing him towards it.

@Misslings What?? What an ignorant post.

My DP is a self employed plumbing & heating engineer. And he has to sit Gas exams every few years to make sure he knows his stuff and can carry on working. He’s just completed them again a couple of weeks ago.

So if your ‘bright’ son wanted to go into heating & plumbing, he’d firstly have to use his brain to successfully complete exams every 5 years. And know his stuff so he didn’t blow someone’s house up whilst working with gas. It is by no means an easy job and to be good at it you have to have a brain.

My DP barely drinks alcohol or socialises outside of work. He’s too damn tired for a start. So no alcoholism there. None of the other tradesmen he knows are alcoholics either.

What an ignorant sweeping generalisation.

@browneyes77

Fair enough. I am speaking from my experience though with all of the people I know in the trades. There has always been a heavy drinking culture, certainly amongst the brickies and plasterers. Yes there’s a heavy drinking culture in many professions too but their bodies don’t seem to wear out as fast as a lot of the men I know in these trades. They seem to look haggered by their late 40s. The physicality of the role catches up with them.

@Misslings
I think you are generalising based on your personal experience
I have worked in construction for 20+ yrs and yes there are tradesmen as you describe and I know and have worked with some like that but they are a dying breed and are linked to certain types of work.
There are many many more who take their job more seriously and these are the guys who get the repeat quality jobs.
There is much more demand for skilled trades who use brains as much as brawn especially as demands change.
I know many tradesmen who would be more than a little insulted by your generalisation.

Ds has been offered a place to do plumbing once he's gained the required GCSE. It will be a 2 year course then more learning on the job. He very sensibly knows that our area is experiencing a shortage of traders as well as being earmarked for building expansion and he's a bright, personable lad who wants to eventually work for himself.

Certainly most of his friends are following him into trade. We were highly impressed with our regional college and the excellent setting it provided for trade education.

I think he's right. I got into debt training at uni and going into teaching. For what? He'll be earning more than me within a few years and i've been teaching for nearly 2 decades. Good on him!

This has happened to me more times than I care to remember. When we had our patio done, we actually had to go with someone pretty expensive as he was the only one who would take the job (he did a fab one to be fair) Most recently, we’re chasing another builder for a patio in our new house to no avail and it’s been 6 months!!

Try and get recommended by a friend. The tables seem to have turned- tradespeople are able to pick customers, rather than the other way round. If a mate can say you’re decent, you might get a trader.

@wonkylegs

I suspect you’re right but I am amazed my brother has sustained this being so fickle with his work. Always inundated. When he does the job, it’s to a high standard but it could be a better service all round if he had more integrity. Perhaps his luck will run out.

YANBU, it is hard. I would throw in a note that it's really all about local contacts and recommendations. Not Facebook, actual neighbours who aren't related to the tradesman. Even so, with electrician and carpenter we'd had recommendations who just didn't quote in one case and didn't turn up in the other. A couple of years later, I met one around the road and he nipped straight in to do something small, mates rates prices as an apology and has been golden since. I contacted the other after my cleaner said he had some free time (he seemed to know everyone but us), he came round and again has been great. I introduced the plumber for our road who everyone now uses and we've just been lucky with a good plasterer. For a big job, only one company in the area is known to be any good, so if we ever get around to extending we will use them.

Still haven't got the new garage doors though after SIX "professionals", four of whom turned up and spent ages including measuring, one of whom turned up to say he didn't fit the specific type of doors we noted in the email (they WHY arrange a time and turn up!?), chased for three of the four to confirm they would quote... and we still have no quotes. Couldn't find anyone who could recommend, but two neighbours want a name if we get one!!