How to respond to menopausal nanny?

[HeatingCheating]

We have a part-time nanny for our two DC (1 and 4). She is amazing, brilliant woman - and we often have a natter over a cup of tea when I'm working from home. We've been out for a few wines too. I realise this might make it trickier now to handle this.

Anyway - she's been chatting about being menopausal or pre-menopausal - I'm not sure which - but she has been on HRT off and on for the last 6 months. She has talked about not feeling herself, feeling very strange, and told me about getting v. angry about things.

The GP can't find any HRT for her at the moment. And she is turning for work with a face like thunder. Getting frustrated at the kids whereas before she would have been so kind. She just generally doesn't really want to be here anymore. But she is trying really hard to be loving but I see the anger across her face over stuff all the time. She mutters stuff under her breath.

I know this isn't her. But also I leave my two kids with her 3 days a week and it's not fair on them.

How would you respond? The last thing she needs is me telling her to "look happier" but I don't feel I can just leave it like it is.

It is called menopause and there shouldn't be any stigma mentioning it. Women can struggle massively and many leave their work. Some don't get good support from their GPs. A lot of awareness has been raised in recent years with many companies now having or in the process of putting together a menopause policy where reasonable adjustments can be made.

Don’t assume it’s all to do with the menopause. It might be that but made worse by personal problems. Ask her and see how you can help. That will give her a chance to explain. Or, perhaps it’s something like menopausal-induced insomnia? That can make people uncharacteristically grumpy. Finally, perhaps she has an additional health problem, is worried about that and that worry is making her irritable.

Whatever the answer, you need to talk to her, say you s noticed she’s not been herself, and ask what you can do to support her. If it is ‘just’ HRT, then if you could afford a private consultation/prescription that might be worth it if she’s usually “wonderful”.

Isn’t the menopause a protected characteristic? Please take advice

Peri menopausal here and anger / irritability is a massive issue for me. I've tried HRT and it made it worse rather than better so for now I'm off it again until I can get another elusive GP appt to try something different. Its horrible, there are times where I feel I could easily murder someone (I was so angry on Sunday I was actually biting my own hand really bloody hard rather than scream at DH because he was annoying me). It's definitely meno related, for the doubters! Its like the worst PMT but all the time / at unpredictable times.

So tricky because it's not her fault but equally not at all fair on your children (and likely quite scary and upsetting if she can't keep a lid on it).

It does help to talk in my experience. Can you try and get some time with her to say you've noticed she seems unhappy and frustrated and ask if there is anything you can do to support her? Appreciate its a 121 employment situation but I'd say that's the first step any employer should take IMO.

www.prescriptiondoctor.com/
This is where I got my hrt when it wasn't available locally. She should give this a try, I think I paid about £30.

Muttering to yourself isn't though

To all the people saying "get her a private prescription" - I think the issue for the nanny is that there is a shortage of oestrogel and possibly patches in pharmacies. This is due in part to the massive boom in awareness about HRT. Some people, like me, can't take traditional oral HRT treatments for medical but lots of people are demanding gel or patches as "better" and the manufacturers can't meet the demand.

With regard to the issues with the nanny, may be give it a week or two to try to observe her as if you didn't know about the menopause issues. Is she objectively acting in a way that you feel means she can't perform in her role? If you still feel you need to talk to her, maybe get some professional advice first (not on Mumsnet) to help you frame the conversation in a way that is constructive and not counter to employment law.

It's one thing if your DH is getting on your nerves but innocent children really?

I knew a very angry non-menopausal nanny looking after children that my children were friends with, omg ehat a b*tch she was. i gave the mother a heads up and she installed cctv and promptlu sacked the nanny!
It doesn't matter the reason for the anger or grumpiness, if it's chronic or acutely bad, it has an impact on the children amd they won't thank you for leaving them with a potential monster.

There is a bit of blurring of boundaries, but you can't just treat her as, 'just an employee,' as you know things as her friend.

Could you possibly say, 'I am concerned as a mother and as a friend,' and ask her if there is anything that has affected her ability to do her job?

If she mentions the issue of inability to get HRT, then maybe address this, but I have not had any issues in getting supplies. I did have to switch to sachets rather than the pump, but it worked out better.

Yes you are being very unreasonable to want to discriminate against your 'amazing, brilliant' employee because she is going through the menopause. Perhaps talk to your children and educate them about the menopause and how it makes people feel.

No identifying information for one.

if I saw someone talking about my (or anyone else’s) menopause symptoms as a mental health condition I’d be pissed off.

educate yourself love, menopause hits women differently, and often rage is a common symptom. Getting the right HRT can fix that in a very short space of time. MH doesn’t work like that.

Are you serious?! No, small children should not need to be educated about the menopause so that they can more easily cope with an angry adult in sole charge of them. I'm sure there is some middle ground here as op seems caring but there is also an obligation to do the job one is actually employed for.

The menopause itself is not a protected characteristic, however it could be covered under other protected characteristics like sex and age www.acas.org.uk/menopause-at-work/menopause-and-the-law

To Justasking muttering to yourself can also be a symptom of menopause to try to cope with the others eg irritability or concentration issues.

We don't know what the actual issue is with the nanny whether it's the shortages (these are improving and there are other options and ways to access it) or getting the right type and dose. There is support for this though and it can be a massive relief to someone knowing there are others feeling the same way. Menopause symptoms can be scary for many women and being able to talk about it can help.

@Wisenotboring what would be your suggestion though if it was their mother taking care of them and experiencing the same things? The OP won’t be fair away herself. Are you suggesting women should hide menopause symptoms or just dismissed as horrible bitches during menopause? Or should families discuss it and make everyone aware of how to support their mother and what they should expect?

@HeatingCheating There are supply issues - but she should be able to get something if she phones around. She needs to call pharmacies, find one with stock and then get the prescription issued sent "back to the spine". They willl giver her a barcode/number to then quote to the pharmacy who can then dispense it.

I am going to come at this from both a medical-ish (student nurse) and menopausal point of view here. I would suggest that she head back to the GP and request some kind of supportive medication to assist with the symptoms while there is a shortage of HRT meds.(ie Venlafaxine - an SSRI that helps stabilize moods and can also help calm hot flushes for some women. I am in Aus and am using an oestrogen supplement and Venlafaxine and can assure you that the world is much better off as a result! Of course there are many other supportive meds and this would best be discussed with her GP and the decision would be based on any medical conditions and medications she takes, etc.) I would also suggest that she inquires about another varieties of HRT medications too. Personally I am concerned about what you said about her going on and off them for a few months. I am sure that alone would mess with her mood. Whether that is due to availability, or due to her choice or her doctor’s, she needs to be on HRT medications for several months to give them a chance to settle in and work. I would stress that while she has been a valuable employee, you are extremely concerned about leaving your kids in her care while she is clearly not herself and you are worried she isn’t coping as a result.

@Smineusername I tried to explain to the one year old about menopause. He mainly threw weetabix in my face in response but fingers crossed we can expect him to be far more empathetic in the future.

And it's not that I can't be bothered to look after my own children. I'm a single mum and I go to work. It's a thing now - mums who work.

@justasking111 luckily there are no innocent children in my care but I'm pretty sure children can be just as annoying as a DH who isn't really doing much wrong, and almost definitely more demanding!

The issue / point I'm trying to make is that it isn't always rational / controllable. I didn't shout or scream or do anything to DH at all, but I knew he could read my mood and feel my annoyance. Sounds like the nanny is having similar issues, and the children will potentially pick up on it if she's not able to get the help she needs to manage it better.

There are lots of reasons an adult may be cross or angry around a child. Generally, I just dont think it is the child's responsibility to deal with it. Even 'low level' emotionally unavailable or negative behaviour from carers can be damaging on an ongoing basis and it is important to be honest with ourselves about that instead of passing the buck to children.

@Wisenotboring nobody said the children had to ‘deal with it’ but you didn’t actually answer my question. This happens to half the population, some of them suffer so badly in this country due to poor care that their moods and behaviour is like this for some time. If it was their mother, what would your suggestion be then? Not ever discuss menopause with the kids? That’s so old fashioned

The anger is what jumps out at me. I was sooooo angry all the time I was menopausal without medication. Literally starting arguments (mostly in my head) with randoms walking along the road, in the shops etc. When I went to the GP eventually I said you need to help me before I kill someone, I am just soo angry all the time. I was prescribed fluoxetine initially (which resolved the anger) and then HRT which resolved the anxiety. I now take both and life is much more balanced and normal.

It's acceptable in men but not so much women.
Men can stomp, sulk, be short and snippy, grump all they want.
Women do it and there is something terribly wrong with them.

The reason I got treated is because I didn't like feeling rageful inside.

I know a few women going through the menopause. One had to leave her job due to feeling rage, it made her look unprofessional. My neighbour who is also going through it, has started screaming and hitting her husband. It's like they've both had personality transplants. I would get rid of the nanny. Explain that she looks angry and the children don't feel comfortable anymore.