How to respond to menopausal nanny?

[HeatingCheating]

We have a part-time nanny for our two DC (1 and 4). She is amazing, brilliant woman - and we often have a natter over a cup of tea when I'm working from home. We've been out for a few wines too. I realise this might make it trickier now to handle this.

Anyway - she's been chatting about being menopausal or pre-menopausal - I'm not sure which - but she has been on HRT off and on for the last 6 months. She has talked about not feeling herself, feeling very strange, and told me about getting v. angry about things.

The GP can't find any HRT for her at the moment. And she is turning for work with a face like thunder. Getting frustrated at the kids whereas before she would have been so kind. She just generally doesn't really want to be here anymore. But she is trying really hard to be loving but I see the anger across her face over stuff all the time. She mutters stuff under her breath.

I know this isn't her. But also I leave my two kids with her 3 days a week and it's not fair on them.

How would you respond? The last thing she needs is me telling her to "look happier" but I don't feel I can just leave it like it is.

Why does she have to be happy? Very few of us are happy all the time, particularly at work. And if a grumpy expression were a bar to looking after children, most parents would have to disqualify themselves at some point.

@UndercoverCS it’s easier to ignore people than make nasty posts, which btw make MN a lot more unpleasant.

Because being visibly angry and muttering passively aggressively under your breath isn’t appropriate conduct in your workplace caring for small children. It’s stupid to act like it is. I also hate this faux confusion on mumsnet where people will say things like ‘well why do nursery workers need qualifications, I look after my baby without them.’ Providing paid childcare is not the same as raising your child. Presumably you wouldn’t be happy to rock up to the childminder’s and find she was just having a snooze on the couch while the kids watch Paw Patrol. I do that at home but not the nursery where I work. Because there are standards of behaviour in the workplace. The very minimum is not making a tense and angry atmosphere for children.

If she’s looking angry in front of you I’d be really worried about how she’s being with the children behind closed doors. I’d talk to her, yes, but to be perfectly honest I might also consider some kind of nanny cam for the short term

I'd tread very very lightly here. This conversation will be as employer/employee and it will be important to speak as if she never gave you any information about her private life and her health. Stick to facts, state the incidents that concern you, and keep it all in the context of you both wanting the best/safest environment for children who are naturally vulnerable.

If she offers additional info during that conversation, e.g. about menopause, then it can be 'on the record' so to speak and then you could perhaps later decide if you want to offer any additional support like time off or help with medical finances etc. But for me that thought process would only happen if I first asked her what support she would find useful, if any.

I can recommend www.balance-menopause.com/
for researched, unbiased and helpful information - she may find this useful to understand what she’s going through. Dr Newsom has a private clinic in Stratford-on-Avon if you/she can afford it; I decided on this route when my own GP was reluctant to prescribe HRT for me, and have never regretted it. I’d hate to go back to the way I felt pre HRT (and so would my DH!). So many of us underestimate how unexpectedly tough menopause can be, mentally as well as physically.

My sympathy to both of you!

It's something you need to sort out between you.

Just talk to her about how she is feeling. Tell her that you sympathise with her and are concerned for her, but be honest and say that you have to put your children first.

I don't think she would thank you for posting about her problems on here.
It would have been kinder to talk it through with her and use your own judgement in a situation like this.

It's just about tact, sensitivity, understanding and what is best for the children.

Thanks for your advice. I think my natural instinct is to try and help - but I realise that I need to think of myself as an employer first.

She has been with us for 1.5 years and has always been absolutely WONDERFUL with them and honestly, the biggest help in so many ways. She is never late, always flexible, and so so kind to the kids.

But every week her mood is worse. She tries to hide it, but i see the eye rolls, the almost growls under her breath if she gets a text that annoys her, or if gets stuck in traffic - she looks livid really quickly. There is sarcasm when dealing with the kids which i don't know if they pick up on = but i certainly do.

She talks openly with me about feeling angry.

The HRT issue - I'm not sure - so it worked for a bit but then wasn't working so well. Then she went back to a GP who fobbed her off. Then back again and this time they prescribed patches but she can't get hold of them at any of the pharmacies near here apparently. She's sat on the phone to the GP right now.

I hadn't thought about offering to pay for her to go private. I could do that. But I can't afford lots and lots but could I pay for her to have an initial consultation - yeah, I could if that meant helping her and things improving.

Not a flaming but it's incorrect to infer that the symptoms described by the OP that the nanny is experiencing are not due to menopause. We all experience different symptoms of varying levels and antidepressants are not first line treatment (although can help those who can't take HRT).

Some information for the OP and anyone else interested
Symptom checker: menopausesupport.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/MENOPAUSE-SYMPTOM-CHECKER-Nov-20.pdf
Guidelines: www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/chapter/Recommendations

It sounds like the nanny is really struggling. I'd suggest the best thing for the OP to do is first have a chat with the nanny and see how to best support using some of the suggestions mentioned.

It's just that if I saw a post on here where someone I knew was talking about my personal struggles with menopause, I would feel absolutely mortified, hurt and upset.

"I would be looking into and talking to her about a private consultation and privately prescribing HRT. The menopause can be awful for some women, I know my whole personality changed and I was very angry all the time, coupled with severe anxiety. It was awful. I went privately and the consultation was approx £250 and the prescription was about £106 for 6mths supply."

@SpeckledlyHen please would you mind saying who you went to see privately?

The GP can't find any HRT for her at the moment. And she is turning for work with a face like thunder. Getting frustrated at the kids whereas before she would have been so kind. She just generally doesn't really want to be here anymore. But she is trying really hard to be loving but I see the anger across her face over stuff all the time. She mutters stuff under her breath.

Make sure you TOTALLY OMIT everything about her GP & prescription, & tell her these facts. From your kids' perspective, the reason she is angry is not important - just that it gets dealt with.

Talk to her about her behaviour and your expectations and see where it goes from there. If she's having medical issues she wants you to consider or wants your support she'll say so.

I really don't think it's your place to link her recent behaviour to menopause and start suggesting treatments unless she asks your advice. There's many reasons she could be grumpy.

@HeatingCheating the NICE guidelines just posted will be really helpful for your nanny, I took them to my GP when I needed them to take over from my private doctor at Newson, and my GP prescribed the same thing straight away. So an initial consult privately can make it easier with your GP, but the guidelines can be enforced and you can complain if they ignore them so might be a good start and save some money. She’s been a great Nanny so have a chat and discuss it with her and tell her you want to help. With a supply shortage, she can ring round pharmacies to get them, I have patches and there’s no shortage as such, some pharmacies just run out sometimes. Ask her exactly what the situation is and help her based on advice her. If she can get the right thing for her, she’ll be back to her normal self soon.

The HRT issue - I'm not sure - so it worked for a bit but then wasn't working so well. Then she went back to a GP who fobbed her off. Then back again and this time they prescribed patches but she can't get hold of them at any of the pharmacies near here apparently. She's sat on the phone to the GP right now.

I hadn't thought about offering to pay for her to go private. I could do that. But I can't afford lots and lots but could I pay for her to have an initial consultation - yeah, I could if that meant helping her and things improving.

It's possible she needed a higher dose. It's been quite tough for many women to get what they need over that past year or 2. HRT prescribing has risen a third of what it was last year. what patches is she using? If eg Evorel Sequi/Conti she could get Evorel estrogen only at a higher dose and oral Utrogestan as the progestogen component.

The support group mentioned above has low cost consultations with one of 2 nurse trained women who can then write to her GP with suggestions.

No way would I pay for an angry woman ( or man) to look after children.
It’s not fair on them.
Son ‘s class had a terribly angry teacher who was notorious for her shouting- so much so that she was called Shouty - (Surname)
She lost her cool over the simplest thing.

Similar age (50’s) but so say she’d always been shouty.
Not hormones, just her.

It can feel tricky, when you've strayed into friend territory with someone who works for you/with you, to then have a convo. about their work quality.

For this reason i'd do as a couple of pps have advised and have the convo. in a friendly manner, but without mentioning anything which was bought up by her in social outings together.

If she wants to respond to your feedback with a reference to her menopause then you can take it from there in a professional and understanding manner - with a view to what happens in the now and the near future if the symptoms can't be bought under control.

As you would any other medical condition which affected her work.

Just to add to this reasonable adjustments must be made

Most women in the workplace, manage 'it' in their professional life. This doesn't seem right or she is taking your kindness as a note to do as she feels and not behave professionally

Yes of course - just hard to see what reasonable adjustments could be made here. Talking to her kindly but honestly to her may be the first step.

Most women in the workplace, manage 'it' in their professional life.

You must have missed the current conversations on menopause and the concern over the numbers of women giving up work due to poorly treated menopause. It’s a financial concern for women and the country.

Sorry my kids come first her health issues are hers. I wouldn't let my mum or MIL look after mine if they were this out of control.

Find someone else

You have blurred the borders, she has confided in you, you are now seeing problems and using her confidences to come to your own conclusions.

In the nicest possible way, you have put yourself in a stupid position.

It really is funny to me that 30/40 year olds do not realise they are only a decade away from perimenopause theselves. If not sooner.