To hate the term woke?

[lowgreyclouds]

I was reading a thread about a netball sponsorship debacle and someone posted an awesome tweet about people using the term "woke".

'Explain what you mean by Woke & then we can have the conversation'. Incredibly put by RakieAyola
This should be the response to every commentator, Journalist & MP who've become far too comfortable throwing the Term 'Woke' into every one of their dog whistle opinions

Does anyone else hate the term too? I only ever hear it used negatively on SM.

Indeed. The usual.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Today 09:58
Perhaps the reason this concept keeps coming up with different labels is because it's labelling something significant?
I would once have described myself as "woke", had that term existed when I was younger, and assumed anyone with concerns was simply a misinformed or narrow minded. I certainly sided with the "Politically Correct"
With adult eyes I realise people who want to "fix" the world by applying authoritarian control on language and public discourse are walking a dangerous path.
The scales fell from my eyes when I realised Political Correctness was mostly two groups of white(x) people arguing about what to call black(x) people because black people still weren't at the table to speak for themselves.
There is a trap "good" people fall into. With the best reasons, they want to stand up for a group they believe is being treated unfairly. They learn what the "right" things to say to support that group are. They adopt that group's enemies as their enemies. They lobby, they shout, maybe even fight, on their behalf. They feel anger, possibly even hatred, on behalf of the group - perhaps even more than people in that the group themselves because it's a "pure" emotion, unsullied by having to live with the actual challenges that are the reality for the group they are championing.
The trap is this: You can fight for someone but you can't compromise on their behalf. To compromise for someone without their permission is to betray them. And you can't evolve your position with experience and nuance, because you are not in reality living it to learn from.
So the more allies step out and take on the flight, the more they crystalise the divisions and the more they take away the power of the people they are fighting for to find their own resolution.
(x) or able-bodied/disabled people, or straight/gay people, or male/female people....

Exactly this. Very well put.

LindyLou I think the term originated amongst black people from the southern US, so, although not strictly correct, it's accepted as vernacular usage. Like "y'all", for example.

I use woke in a negative sense when talking about people who say that transwomen are women and that lesbians can have penises, but to be fair I could equally well call them misogynist and homophobic.

who the hell is Rakie Ayola and why should I care what they think?
All these nonentities pontificating about what I should be doing....

Stop being such a snowflake! It's a perfect example of loony leftist, political correctness gone mad that has led us to this broken Britain.

Did I miss any out?

I thought it was just part of modern street-talk e.g.

"Just been down to Woke, and grabbed a pizza with Bea. No sweat"

So you can't believe a trans person could be good at pottery and the only reason they're on there is because of 'box ticking'?

Yes, it’s a lazy term that is applied to all sorts of situations where it’s not really appropriate. It’s bosom buddy is “snowflake”, also chucked around with little regard to whether it actually applies. It’s also similar to “legend” and “hero”.

People like that don’t change their minds

its silly to think otherwise

The issue here is why does it matter whether there is over representation on TV?

‘Oh no, people who have been severely underrepresented for centuries, enslaved, tortured and discriminated against are in more adverts than would be indicative of real life.’

Trying to make that point is usually the signs of a racist, as most regular, normal human beings don’t care. The only people who care about Black families being on too many ads are racist, they might not be overt, they might not even think so themselves, but they are.

It's not racist to state facts, but the interpretation of those facts might be

I assume most people who are 'just pointing out' that ethnic minorities are over-represented on TV did not make a habit of 'just pointing out' that white people were over-represented all those years prior

So it's only a problem or noteworthy when it's not white people who are over-represented. What should we infer from this?

I can absolutely believe they are excellent at their job whilst still believing they were sought out as a box ticking exercise.

‘People like what?’

I like it because it quickly denotes an idiot you probably shouldn't bother talking to

I always understand the term “woke” to refer to people being ridiculous, such as the woman who said it is wrong to refer to it being “summer” because it is winter somewhere in the world, or the white woman on Twitter asking if it is ok for her to go and watch black panther at the cinema. I personally find this nonsense is counter productive adverse to the fight for equality for marginalised groups.

People genuinely fighting racism, sexism etc is a different thing, and if people are dismissing these efforts as being “woke” then yeah I agree it’s incredibly annoying.

Racists and bigots

Kind of clear based on the context of the comments you were replying to.

The problem with name calling and shaming people based on your perception of their characters is you tend to set their beliefs and make them less likely to change.

I listened to a really interesting podcast recently where a man set out to change the minds of some members of the KKK in America. He has been remarkably successful by talking to them, listening and allowing them to speak. If he had written RACIST on a placard and marched on the street he would have inspired none of them to change.

i think you’d agree that if you can change the minds of KKK members in regard to racism then most people have the capacity to change their views.

I’ve just checked his name and it is Daryl Davis. I’ll link you to one story but Google will brings you up thousands of hits.

www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

It’s not a perception of their character

When people out themselves for being a bigot and or a racist, it’s not merely perception that they’re being bigoted or racist.

Although considering your views on this subject it’s clear why you’re so wound up about someone merely stating facts. Most don’t like to accept they’re on the wrong side.

Honestly I’m not sure what you mean by ‘sides’. I think from your post you assume I’m on the ‘wrong side’ or that you can spot others who are on the wrong side. I don’t think it’s as easy as that. People have a tendency to have an internet personality and a real life personality. We’re pretty complex as people and we can hold lots of opinions at one time. Calling people racist and bigoted is a pretty lazy way to wander through life. Talk to people and hear their views on lots of subjects. I suspect if you truly listen you’ll find most people are occupying the same side on many debates.

Great posts @RudsyFarmer

It's such a relief to read balance like that around these discussions.

Like liberal lefty metropolitan elite , hang wringing do gooder. Virtue signalling another one. Like being liberal or a do gooder is a bad thing
All terms writ large in the alt right dictionary. Often folk who claim the right are the only ones who understand the working class but then proceed to insult the real working class with snobbery and pearl clutching.

Thinking the trans potter was a tick box exercise puts you quite firmly into a ‘side’ and definitely not the right one for anyone with a shred of decency.

Those with such opinions tend to have less than ideal views about other topics of a similar vein.

As stated before, the people who cry about tick box exercises, black families being over represented in the media etc. and use the term woke are bigoted and in some cases racist.

@ChefsKiss would be the first one to apply to be in charge of the reeducation camps

total lack of ability to understand complex issues