Neighbour refuses to use front door

[Quellyza]

Hi, I was researching online, and came across this thread (first time poster here)www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/2993195-Neighbour-Dispute-re-Right-of-Access. I really do sympathise with the OP, is it really that unreasonable to ask the neighbours to use the front door where possible?.

Every person I have spoken to about this has agreed, this access is so close to our house and so intrusive, that it should only be used for things such as wheelie bins, lawnmowers, garbage bags, etc... which is fine, but not for constant foot traffic all day every day.

If I didn't know any better I would say the house in the above link IS my house, we bought this property not knowing about the right of access, - yes, it is written in the deed 'right of use of the marked path by way of foot only', we missed it, we had no idea about it, had we of known we would not of bought the house, we even mentioned to the previous owners that we would be blocking up the back gate and they didn't tell us anything - we later found out they had moved because of this access (according to hearsay)

The first time we were made aware of anything like it, was when the neighbour screamed at my Nephew to move his motorbike as it was blocking their path. in our minds we felt that our neighbour shouldn't be asking us to move our things on our property, but ok, this time, trying to be nice, we will move it, but please use your front door from now on... (they ignored that)
We spoke to solicitors, paid another solicitor to try and see if we could do something as this wasn't made clear to us, apparently there isn't. It is stated - we should have seen it, in the masses of paperwork we were sent.

That was 18 months ago, since then, there has been a lot going on, including police visits, verbal abuse (from them to us) They have had a warning, we have always kept the pathway clear and moved out of their way even if hubby was up a ladder fixing something he would have to climb down, move the ladder, let them pass and climb up (we are renovating the house) even though they can use their front door. The stupid and frustrating thing is, they literally have to walk past their own front door to get to the path that leads to their driveway!

Now they DO use their front door if and when its very bad weather or to take in a grocery delivery or something, so they have no reason to not use it.

I once managed to ask why they wont use the front door, they said it was because they were Irish, and its disrespectful to use it. (I responded by saying this is England and its disrespectful to walk around our house 20 times a day)

We are in a group of 4 houses so lets say no1 and no4 are end terraces, no2 and 3 have rights of access around the one directly connected. If we are 1 - and no.2 uses it... then 3 can use no. 4's right?,,, but they don't, they wouldn't dream of it... they think its impolite. we have erected a second gate, will be erecting a 3rd and if that doesn't slow them down, possibly a 4th. (these are NOT locked and are just there as a small sort of warning for us that the neighbours are coming) I have personal anxiety because of the verbal abuse and the police have managed to talk them out of attempt of communication towards us.(honestly I think they are all deaf as all they do is scream at each other)

Honestly the other neighbours are fed up with them too, 22yr old and her boyfriend, other rather vulgar dosser types hanging out round front and every time they want a drink or the loo or whatever they walk around our house into theirs, they litter on the bank, (we are not in a town, we are in a rural area). I have been quite surprised by them popping up around the corner, almost bumped into them while walking out my back door, once they were walking past and the gobby 22yr old started screaming at me, I couldn't even continue doing what I was doing as she was blocking my path. (I just kept saying please go home please go home)

Anyway, leaving this here, I will keep an eye I'm just, I have had enough, I'm stressed and I'm done with these vulgar immoral people being allowed to be like this.

TAAT and the link doesnt work so no idea how you found it.

Maybe a diagram would help

I had some sympathy for you until your “this is England” comment.

You said 'This is England'? ffs yabu just for that

🤔

ooh I just noticed that!

I live in England and round here using back doors is the norm. Noone would ever use a front door and most of them have sofas in front on them.

If they have right of access they should be allowed to use their back door. You should have checked the deeds before you bought the house caviat emptor etc.

They sound like bullies and are intimidating you any way they can, you have my sympathy.

Any way you can move the gate to the bottom of your garden? That ways there’s right of access but it’s not right by your house.

OP I totally understand your frustrations your neighbours are down right rude and as for the we are irish it's rude to use the front door thats total rubbish I'm irish and I've never heard that before.
I would get cctv up and report every single act of verbal abuse against you start taking notes in a note book and get on to the council/police about it as this has now escalated yes they might have a right of way but they are taking the piss big time with it.
You have my sympathies I had the same issue with my poor mum and her neighbour and the right of way and only when she was warned by the gas board when she denied access to a foot of her property for them to check something and recieved a solicitors letter did she back down.

Having lived in a few places with old terraces with access routes across gardens, I find it really hard to believe that you didn't grasp this was a factor before purchasing. Obviously it's in the deeds, but it's really obvious on viewing when you have paths and gates crossing multiple properties. Usually the paths are close to the house and it does mean little privacy - but that's how it is!

In towns like this, houses with access routes and/or shared courtyard gardens are considerably cheaper than houses with private gardens. You get what you pay for.

Just because you don't like the neighbours doing it doesn't mean you can't stop it. They're not immoral. They shouldn't be shouting at you, but also you shouldn't have moved in and tried to impose something you have no right to do.

I have bought several houses including 2 with complex deeds including access rights, each time my solicitor (different ones each time, ordinary high street ones) every time my solicitor highlighted the matters of concern and asked us to specifically advise if we were ok, we were advised to have indemnity insurance in place in one instance.

If your solicitor did not highlight the access right they are negligent. However if they sent you a list of things of note and you failed to read their letter then it's on you.

This. Unfortunately you didn't properly read the deeds, have got into an unnecessary dispute over it and have made a mountain over a molehill. Yabu.

put a padlock with a number combination on the gates-- give them the numbers obviously for access but will certainly slow then down.

You are not covering yourself in glory here, OP.

It is 100% on you to make sure you understand the terms of the purchase of your house. I find it difficult to believe that you really didn't know about it before you bought the house, and that you did not make any attempt to read the paperwork.

Your neighbours have a right of access, and your thinly veiled racism doesn't negate that. At any rate, in large parts of the UK, (white Anglo Saxon, and predominantly working class) people culturally prefer to use the back door, as the front door is believed to be reserved for marriage and funerals. Terry Pratchett even writes about it so you can get back in your box with your "this is England."

I had a tiny bit of sympathy for you before I got to that part.

“There were only three times in your life when it was proper to come through the front door, and you were carried every time.”

― Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters

Oh Terry pratchett writes about it, thats ok then! Sounds very annoying op

Well off people and people who live rurally often prefer the back door as well, now that I think of it - coming in with muddy boots/dogs etc.

I think you know perfectly well that I'm not suggesting Terry Pratchett should be our guide for modern manners, but that it is not exclusively an "Irish" habit to avoid the front door, something that is alien to nice English people.

They're accessing their house in a legal manner that they were accustomed to before you moved there?

YABU obviously

Also just to add - you say other people have told you that the access should be only for bins and lawnmowers. You should check the deeds about that! Again having lived in several places with these, in the deeds it usually specifies whether it is general access, or access once a week for the purpose of bin removal.
In properties where the land around the terraces didn't used to be fenced off (even if it was accepted that the houses had gardens), there would commonly be paths running along the front and back of the houses. When it became common practice to put physical boundaries in place, these are the type of paths that are more likely to be written into deeds as access rather than access for a specific purpose. It may be that other neighbours have developed a local culture of only using them if necessary but the only way you would know if you access is legally limited is if you check the deeds and check with the solicitor.

This seems the most pragmatic approach. Or maybe ones with keys so they have to have find a different key for each gate?

Do something that really annoys them and just tell them it's a tradition from where you come from

Usually there are clauses in the deeds about gates being limited to latch type and no locks allowed.

Encouraging the OP to antagonise the neighbour isn't going to help either, they're using their access as they're entitled to do and presumably have been doing for years before the OP moved in.

It may seem strange the insistence on using the back, but in many terraces using the front door means stepping straight into a small living room (it's not unusual with room layouts for people to not have an obvious walk way from the front) whereas using the back means entering via the kitchen (better to avoid traipsing mud in, less disruptive for other people at home)

But if they're not breaking any rules by accessing their house this way there's not a lot you can do. The onus is on you to read all the information about a property you're buying and if you haven't done that, you can hardly complain at not liking something. You can, of course, not like it but complaining about it is ridiculous when you accept you missed the info in the paperwork.

They will just leave the gates open.

Having a normal gate with a latch will be enough.

It sounds like you have allowed this to annoy you in a manner disproportionate to the actual inconvenience it causes for you and your neighbours have decided to dig in their heels and are perhaps enjoying your discomfort

Lots of terraced houses also have front doors that are very close to their neighbour's front door. It really shouldn't be creating this level of upset having people close to your property and if it does then it was pretty daft to buy a terraced house!