Neighbour refuses to use front door

[Quellyza]

Hi, I was researching online, and came across this thread (first time poster here)www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/2993195-Neighbour-Dispute-re-Right-of-Access. I really do sympathise with the OP, is it really that unreasonable to ask the neighbours to use the front door where possible?.

Every person I have spoken to about this has agreed, this access is so close to our house and so intrusive, that it should only be used for things such as wheelie bins, lawnmowers, garbage bags, etc... which is fine, but not for constant foot traffic all day every day.

If I didn't know any better I would say the house in the above link IS my house, we bought this property not knowing about the right of access, - yes, it is written in the deed 'right of use of the marked path by way of foot only', we missed it, we had no idea about it, had we of known we would not of bought the house, we even mentioned to the previous owners that we would be blocking up the back gate and they didn't tell us anything - we later found out they had moved because of this access (according to hearsay)

The first time we were made aware of anything like it, was when the neighbour screamed at my Nephew to move his motorbike as it was blocking their path. in our minds we felt that our neighbour shouldn't be asking us to move our things on our property, but ok, this time, trying to be nice, we will move it, but please use your front door from now on... (they ignored that)
We spoke to solicitors, paid another solicitor to try and see if we could do something as this wasn't made clear to us, apparently there isn't. It is stated - we should have seen it, in the masses of paperwork we were sent.

That was 18 months ago, since then, there has been a lot going on, including police visits, verbal abuse (from them to us) They have had a warning, we have always kept the pathway clear and moved out of their way even if hubby was up a ladder fixing something he would have to climb down, move the ladder, let them pass and climb up (we are renovating the house) even though they can use their front door. The stupid and frustrating thing is, they literally have to walk past their own front door to get to the path that leads to their driveway!

Now they DO use their front door if and when its very bad weather or to take in a grocery delivery or something, so they have no reason to not use it.

I once managed to ask why they wont use the front door, they said it was because they were Irish, and its disrespectful to use it. (I responded by saying this is England and its disrespectful to walk around our house 20 times a day)

We are in a group of 4 houses so lets say no1 and no4 are end terraces, no2 and 3 have rights of access around the one directly connected. If we are 1 - and no.2 uses it... then 3 can use no. 4's right?,,, but they don't, they wouldn't dream of it... they think its impolite. we have erected a second gate, will be erecting a 3rd and if that doesn't slow them down, possibly a 4th. (these are NOT locked and are just there as a small sort of warning for us that the neighbours are coming) I have personal anxiety because of the verbal abuse and the police have managed to talk them out of attempt of communication towards us.(honestly I think they are all deaf as all they do is scream at each other)

Honestly the other neighbours are fed up with them too, 22yr old and her boyfriend, other rather vulgar dosser types hanging out round front and every time they want a drink or the loo or whatever they walk around our house into theirs, they litter on the bank, (we are not in a town, we are in a rural area). I have been quite surprised by them popping up around the corner, almost bumped into them while walking out my back door, once they were walking past and the gobby 22yr old started screaming at me, I couldn't even continue doing what I was doing as she was blocking my path. (I just kept saying please go home please go home)

Anyway, leaving this here, I will keep an eye I'm just, I have had enough, I'm stressed and I'm done with these vulgar immoral people being allowed to be like this.

Is there any chance you could reroute their access? It would depend on the wording of your deeds I know it's not always possible, but right round your garden boundary would be ideal, so you could but up another fence.
If they are as bad as you say I'd be considering getting a large dog, don't forget to walk him on your right off access, in their garden, a few sprinklers, very inappropriate Gnomes. And anything within the law that would rattle them.

YABU purely on the basis that you didn't read the paperwork... That is a basic thing in agreeing a house sale. "My solicitor didn't tell me" is the same as the dog ate my homework.

I would be tempted to explore the possibility of this. Something where they have to walk through a narrow ginnel made of fencing you've put up around the far perimeter of your land. Would that be feasible??

This does look highly unusual to be used constantly by your neighbours. Im slightly surprised that your conveyancer didn’t make you aware but I’ve been an estate agent for a good while and see these things sometimes. You do have my sympathy about this situation as in theory, there’s absolutely no need for them to keep encroaching on your property and yelling at you to move stuff on your property. They have a right of way/access yes, but you don’t have to roll out the red carpet out for them.
I used to live in a terrace and my next door neighbours used their back door which meant they were constantly in my back garden, I felt it unnecessary when they have a perfectly good front door. Unfortunately people seem to think just because they have a right of way means they should use it.
If they are loitering I think this is bang out of order and they need to know it’s your property. Hope you can report them for their behaviour to their housing association.

If it’s social housing then surely it’s not them you need to negotiate with to end the easement, it’s the housing associating. Will they not let you buy it out or similar to allow you to extend etc?

They have a right of way. They like it. It adds value to their house. You want them to curtail their reasonable use of their house and change the way they use it because you didn’t pay enough attention to, probably, the biggest purchase of your life.

I understand why you don’t like it. I would not have bought a house with that right of way either. But it’s not their fault that you did. You need to make your peace or sell up and find somewhere else. You can’t reasonably tell them which door they can use.

Is there definatly no restrictions or defined purposes for their use of the access?
I always understood these sort of access arrangements to be on an 'necessity' basis, like for taking bins out or taking a bike out a shed without having to go through the house, not for general everyday/preferred use access.

The not using your front door business, especially when you then have to go through a neighbours garden, is just plain stupid. And the whole 'theres only 3 times when its acceptable blah blah blah' is just a pile of old fashioned shite.

Moving might be the best option though - unfortunately. At least next time you'll know not to trust your solicitor to tell you explicitly everything you need to know about - despite the huge sums you pay them.

My neighbour only uses their right of access once a year- for a fucking big tanker to empty their septic tank. I’d much rather them waking through every day, rather than that driving over my lawn

we asked the owner of the property if we could do this at our own expense but they said no :(

But re the easement who is it who can actually say whether you can do this if you keep the access the same ? Is it the neighbour or is this the HA who owns their house ( if I have understood correctly. If the purpose if the easement is to allow neighbours access to their back door - not sure why TempName01 's plan would not work.

Now if it has been as currently is for ever and a day I can see resistance. Is the problem that you are dealing with not just the neighbour but a big HA organisation ? IE if the HA agreed would that do it ?

I think you just have to make peace with it. Put up net curtains so they can’t see in or better still blinds, so you can’t see out.

We had something similar in our old house and it never bothered us.

You can only unilaterally vary the route of an easement if there is what’s known as a “lift and shift” provision in the original grant which entitles you to do so. Even then you have to register the change at the Land Registry.

If there is no provision entitling you to change the route you can’t do so without the consent of the person entitled to exercise the easement. If they do consent it again has to be registered at the Land Registry.

The first house we were going to buy was an end link and the advert mentioned right of access and our solicitor pointed it out too. We were told the right of access was for bins but actually, that was probably just what they used it for, we could have had neighbours who were like yours. Thankfully the sale was withdrawn as the sellers couldn't get a mortgage on their onward property.

I agree with prev suggestion, move the access gate to the bottom of the garden. And if possible, fence off the path so that will give you some privacy. It will cost you but would be worth it in the long run.

Works for me!

@DelurkingLawyer - so out of interest & - if I have understood correctly - let's say I have for the purposes of this question - if the neighbour's house is HA owned - is it the neighbour ( so current tenant using the easement ) or the HA who owns the house who would have to agree to it being changed. I do realise in either case it would have to go to Land Registry.

You just have to accept it as this isn't something you can change.

Stop fighting about their legal right and next time you buy a house think before you buy.

It's all completely up to the HA, The tenants have lived there for 6 years, they told us that they didn't want to live there and wanted to move at one point but as time went on it seems less of the case, I even looked into it as the rest of the houses don't want them there either, like a petition from all the neighbours to get these out...

Not only that but it would help them get back to a town where they want to be, they were placed there by th HA as thier prev house was damaged...

If I could talk to these people there could of been a plan and we could of worked together to get them where they want to be... its just silly that all they can do is scream in our faces so it's pointless to even attempt communication at this point.

I do wanna point out we have never blocked the path.

And yes, bikes, bins... anything like that we would totally understand.

We are going to lower the path as we like to look out of our windows, the view is immense and one of the reasons we bought the place so no blinds or nets. We love the outdoors

FYI we have also requested mediation but they didn't accept I guess

We want to make an access elsewhere we really do... the HA just won't budge on it

You didn't read that the neighbours had right of way to walk past your house?
Terraced houses?
Had you never experienced them before?

And if a random visitor to next door is blocking their access, they have every right to ask that visitor to move their motorbike.

PS you sound racist.

If there was a petition to remove them shouldn’t that have also come up when you bought it?

@Quellyza - I have a great friend and she is an HA tenant and she does not find it easy to deal with them

To all others I think the OP has got the point that things were missed when she bought the house - on whichever side scarcely matters now ( unless she has redress to the solicitors who did the conveyancing. ) Perhaps a bit of support and ideas might go down better than - " you messed up "

@PriamFarrl - now you see that I think is helpful if that was not pointed out at the time - it is something to go back to the solicitor with .

Thankyou, yes we are first time buyers, we have come from a place where our family have not got a lot of experience in purchasing houses, we have indeed learned from this experience, and we are upset that we made the mistake, believe me.

Also, honestly no, we have never experienced this before, so like, in a block of flats, the hallway for example is definitely for use by everyone, even if you owned the flat across the hall it is well known the hallway is for everyone. but a path through your garden, right next to your house, in a rural area, where there is more than enough room for that not to happen is not apparent - it really is just the audacity of it for us, I don't think I am being unreasonable asking them to use their front door as their primary access, as that's what anyone would think or at least everyone I have spoken to about it until I came here, literally this is the first place I have come where people think its ok for them to get in our way of everything we are doing outside, when there is no need for it.

Good to get the different points of view though, I hope to be more accepting of it I wish I didn't care.

Also with the petition I meant, to make one, if it was a possibility, not that one exists

Why do you need HA agreement to move the access if you own your property?

Tbh I'd move. I agree with others this would be a huge deal breaker for me. I value my privacy above all else. Before the photos I had thought it was access at the bottom of the garden which could easily have been boxed off. This is so intrusive and I don't know either why they're choosing to use it as their main entrance to their house. It should be used for bins (weekly) or to take large items into their garden.