Segregating group discussions about racialised issues

[Sparklybutold]

Currently training to become a psychotherapist and it has been decided to separate the group into those who are non white to have a space they can use to discuss racialised issues. I can't decide how I feel about this. I'm curious how others would feel about this? As a white person do I deserve a say at all? Or is it a missed opportunity to discuss things that as a white person I need to hear? FWIW given the nature of who's running the course it would not be wise for me to share my views on this with them so I wanted to explore it here instead.

This is an interesting thread.

I do agree with safe spaces for people to talk freely about race for non white people.

I think it is equally important for white people to have safe spaces to talk about race.

Culture is such a minefield. I, a black woman am married to a white man.
I was born in the UK. DH in another white majority country.

As a result of being born in the uk, I feel I know so much more about white culture than many white people know about non white culture ( I don't want to say black culture because there are so many other non white cultures in the uk). This because I am a minority.

OP, you posted that you attempted to talk to your white colleagues about white privilege and they weren't having it. I would push for a separate white discussion group and slog the race issues out.

It will be difficult, but hopefully it will provide a safe space for difficult things to be said.

I trust that eventually, as a result of having these separate conversations, especially in the capacity of your chosen profession, joint conversations will happen in a space where all participants white and non white are confident to speak up.

Placemarking as my employer is also delivering critical race theory based training

@Iammatrix

Ah this hits it. It's not the fact that there's a non-white group it's the fact that I know there are ideas and prejudices (including my own) that need to be had by white people as it just feels despite the reading and some discussion it comes back to for some - I'm not racist, I don't see colour etc... And then when I acknowledge my own role in racism, especially microagressions, which I'm more than guilty off, I get looked at like I'm morally corrupt. I want there to be this discussion, but it's just not safe. A colleague responded to the dear white America piece written a few years back and we were asked to respond anonymously. She wrote in response ‘i am racist’ - this caused the course leader to demand whoever did it to own up. It was extremely traumatic for her and was handled dreadfully. This same tutor continues to wield their power sword which is extremely traumatic and at times has had this same person threatening it's a fitness to practice issue. It is not the environment to be hashing out these types of discussions. Sadly. Hence coming here.

This is a good idea.

If so many of you feel like this why not raise a group complaint?

@PinkFrogss

It's not safe? This person has power. They escalate things very quickly. I've been on the receiving end of their actions twice. Training is expensive and gruelling as it is. I'm a mum, I work, there is only so much I can do. Once I've qualified I may reconsider. I have in the meantime contacted the students union and the BACP to get some advice on the matter. But right now - I'm just trying to get through it.

@PinkFrogss comtacting student union and BACP is owing to a completely different matter btw. In comparison this issue is pretty small with other things happening.

I am really curious.

Do you actually think anyone that does not believe in this is a racist?

Even people who are themselves black or Asain, or part of other non-white groups?

The answer here is not to participate in any of it. Keep your head down and finish your course.

Not subscribing to an unproven theory does not make one either racist or a bigot. Whether that’s critical race, gender identity theory or Scientology. Name calling and insults won’t win the argument either.

You couldn’t be further from the truth. Ageism is a bad look.

There you go, we all need safe spaces.

Please keep pushing to have that conversation with your white colleagues, with no punishments or judgments.

That, I feel is what is happening in the non white discussion groups. Things are being said that can be understood in the group but might not be understood if you were included.
That is not racism or exclusion, it is safe spaces.

In that group of non white people, will be many voices and opinions. We don't all speak from the same platform and we don't all have the same experience, and we can and do inform each other, in safe spaces. Where we can voice but not necessarily share, right now, with non white people.

I am sure that stands for white people too.

I see.

So you are happy to say, for example, that Adolph Reed, or John McWhorter, or Coleman Hughes, are racists.

I do wonder if you'd tell them that directly.

sorry my app glitched, can see the OP isn’t the one who had deleted posts, I’ve reported my post.

Sorry OP

I do agree with PP, keep your head down and qualify.

There is work to do but get through your training 1st.

And then .....,!

So the problem is that you are wanting to talk about how you are a racist and you want to convince your colleagues that they are also as racist as you are?

Well I'm not surprised that this isn't getting much support from your tutor. I also think that if someone is saying they are racist then that should be addressed. It must be hard for your colleagues to know there are self-confessed racists on their course.

@beastlyslumber

You've misrepresented what I've said.

You said you had a "role in racism, especially microaggreasons." In other words you are saying you commit racist aggressions? Not sure how I am misrepresenting you by calling out your racism that you have already admitted to? And you want a whites only group so you can talk about your racism with other white people. I can't see that as a good thing and I imagine the non-racist white people on your course would want nothing to do with it.

You say your friend actually wrote down that she was racist. Again, I'm only going by your words. She admitted she's a racist, so I think fair enough that she was pulled up for this. What have I misrepresented?

I think what beastly is pointing out, OP, is that lots of people do not accept that kind of Robin DiAngelo thinking about race. Expecting others to be ok with it is a bit like expecting them to accept a religious confession.

My fault
My own fault
My own grievous fault.

Is fine for yourself, but other people are not working within that framework and it probably isn't reasonable to expect them to in a work setting.

This is one of the issues with doing this at all at school or work. There is no reason to think all the people in a certain racial category will take the same viewpoint on these issues. It's the kind of thing it's often better to avoid talking about in a professional setting.

You end up with only a narrow set of viewpoints going into certain jobs, social work has serious problems with this.

@beastlyslumber

Because you are assuming a standpoint of us and them - racists and non-racists. All the research and lots of black scholars have spoken extensively on how the idea that people aren't racist, that they don't see colour etc is not only wrong but damaging. Of course everyone sees color and subconsciously we act on this, not necessarily to be mean, but which reflects what we have learnt and how we make sense of the world and thus respond to those around us.

Colin kaepernick did a brilliant series on Netflix about microagressions - this is what I'm referring too in terms of my own culpability of racism.

I'm interested to hear about where you stand though - I'm guessing from what you've wrote you believe some people aren't racist?

@MangyInseam I have read a lot of robin deangelos work and to me at least, it makes sense

Black scholars aren't all on the same page on this.

Which is what you'd expect, don't you think? Black people who aren't scholars also have differing opinions. One of my (black) clients at work said, on the topic of CRT - "I hate that racist shit" which sums it up really.

It's probably in-built to all humans to have in and out-group preferences. Most people have to struggle against this at times. What we see as "in" or "out" is quite variable however. In a society that highlight racial constructs they may well feature, in various forms. But not all cultures have had theories of race.

And it's certainly not some kind of one-directional phenomena.