Young men who get stuck doing nothing...

[Bunny890]

My younger brother is living at home with my parents and I know several other young men who also get 'stuck' at home - endlessly online, alienate friends, not able to even look for employment or engage with healthcare. I realise that there is a mental health element to this, but I can't help but feel frustrated - Mu

@NicolaSixSix
I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but I believe Hebephrenia usually presents without psychosis.

I think that the problem may start even earlier. I suspect the prime age for kids becoming functioning, contributing members of the community is the years from about 13 to 16.

Kids that age desperately want autonomy, independence, but also want to matter, to do "real" things.School can help but in many cases it doesn't feel real, and the kids don't have much independence there. Things like jobs in the early teens are increasingly rare, people don't want to hire them as babysitters. A lot of parents are not even keen on leaving kids that age to walk home alone, or stay home alone.

Post about 16 years old they have found other ways to occupy their time, gaming in particular fulfills the need for dopamine response, or social media for girls, and they have become used to not contributing to society. Some will learn it later, but even there I wonder if they are ever as productive as they would have been otherwise.

I worry this will snowball and happen with more and more young people post covid. My dd thankfully chose a career that whilst it can lead to remote working, is certainly hands on and hospital based so thankfully she HAD to go to work
However, 2 young chaps we are close to have fallen apart as their degrees, whilst actually for super clever things (IT types) immeadiately led to not just fionishing uni remotely, but starting to work remotely.
1 is now a trainee barber and the other works on a golf course
The whole work friend social life bit has not happened and thye both were in great mental distress before they walked away (quit work and left their bedrooms)

I do know a woman like this - not violent, but never really managed to leave home. Not ND, she went to university but then came home afterwards and just stayed there. Mostly doing crafts and helping her mum with domestic stuff (elaborate cooking, lots of gardening).

She is a younger sibling, and her parents definitely babied her. She had to go to a local university because anywhere else was “too dangerous”, according to her dad. Couldn’t take a year out as again her parents said no. Couldn’t move into a flatshare as it was a “waste of money”. Parents didn’t want her doing a “menial job” so she has never worked. Her older brother, who actually does have a MH diagnosis, was encouraged to do all of those things and has been financially independent since he was 21.

Actually thinking about it, she would make an amazing SAHW for somebody, and would have been a perfect Victorian or Georgian young lady, making visits with her mother and having accomplishments. Just doesn’t work well in today’s society.

This is a parenting fail. Lots of faffing about worrying about mental health and young men feeling sidelined by society but these young men are choosing to be sidelined, enabled by parents who fund the unhealthy existence.
I employ a lot of young people and in the last ten years I have noticed a growing trend of capable young men who don’t want to excel, move up the ladder or even want full time positions or extra hours and don’t need them due to parents subsidising them. They lead such sad, boring safe and lonely lives and it worries me for the future.

If it were just hanging out and doing nothing, I would say that it could be some depression or anxiety, but with the behavior you are talking about it is most likely something else. A different mental condition, something medical or he could be self-medicating.
Only thing I could really say is if he won't visit a doctor and get further help-your parents need to get him out of the house. None of them are safe in this situation and I don't just mean physically. Your parents wouldn't be the first to be evicted for things their children have done. Also, some programs are more available for those in need who don't have a home.

@Bramblejoos what you describe sounds far more healthy than sitting at home gaming all day

@WhatNoRaisins
Agree it's a problem. We can't all get better jobs due to skill level and the simple fact that someone has to do the worst paid jobs.Not every person in this situation can turn of the games console, go outside and create a better life for themselves

i agree with this, but equally nor should they sit at home living off universal credit which I, and many others, fund. If they can’t better themselves either because they can’t be arsed or simply because they don’t have the skills or intellect then I’m afraid there is a moral obligation to contribute to society as they are able. If we all decided we wanted to sit at home (or make up MH issues to enable us to do so) then society would collapse.

I think that the problem may start even earlier. I suspect the prime age for kids becoming functioning, contributing members of the community is the years from about 13 to 16.

Kids that age desperately want autonomy, independence, but also want to matter, to do "real" things.School can help but in many cases it doesn't feel real, and the kids don't have much independence there. Things like jobs in the early teens are increasingly rare, people don't want to hire them as babysitters. A lot of parents are not even keen on leaving kids that age to walk home alone, or stay home alone.

Post about 16 years old they have found other ways to occupy their time, gaming in particular fulfills the need for dopamine response, or social media for girls, and they have become used to not contributing to society. Some will learn it later, but even there I wonder if they are ever as productive as they would have been otherwise.

YYY @MangyInseam

This isn't something that happens overnight.

Infantilising young teens leads to failure to develop, socially, psychologically and emotionally.

In the case of the OP's brother, the mother needs to press charges for violence, and change the locks. The brother is not experiencing any consequences for his choices.

My 28 year old son has recently been diagnosed with severe ADHD. It presents itself very differently to the traditional symptoms. Since his diagnosis his life has changed massively. He is on meds, back to work, lost 6 stone, practicing self care and even dating again.

Previous symptoms were a lack of control with spending, gambling, over eating, no self control, lack of self care. He is extremely intelligent but was unable to channel this unless it was for something he loved like gaming. Unable to concentrate on books or furthering his education.

Yes to this

I also think my son has high functioning autism but refuses a diagnosis.

I suspect a lot of this. A lot of the younger boys/men that fit the category of failing to launch have been neurodivergent and overwhelmed at having to function 'normally', especially when they haven't been diagnosed.

I suppose that raises the whole question of why we go out to work, I've always thought most people do so because it gets them what they want, ie. finances the life they want. Is that the case for most people?

I know some have vocations or go into something because they want to make a difference but is wanting to contribute to society a common motivation? I don't know if this has been studied or what most people think.

Actually during my own stuck phase I think what motivated me to go out and work was that I knew I'd be sneered at even more as an unemployed person living with my parents.

I think that the problem may start even earlier. I suspect the prime age for kids becoming functioning, contributing members of the community is the years from about 13 to 16.

Absolutey agree with this as someone who was desperate for independence and my own life at 15 and became increasingly disaffected and ‘gem as I realised how many hoops to jump through and roadblocks there are to actually becoming independent (and being born without parents who can help). I’m doing okay now but it’s taken a time to get there and having a partner who can shore up my income.

The housing situation makes you feel so hopeless when you see how you really need two incomes or 5 additional years of education (and a couple of entry level jobs as stepping stones) to be able to earn a sustainable wage to even afford to live in a shit place alone. I don’t blame a lot of youths for feeling the way they do.

Placemarking here in case DS turns out like this. I really hope he won't. Thankfully he has started at uni now, but it was very concerning post-A levels seeing him give up too easily on finding holiday work, staying in bed most of the day then gaming for most of the rest of it. It is up to the parents to take a tough line of course, but this can be easier said than done.

An interesting and important thread.

My son is diagnosed autistic, and I could see him ending up like this without careful management, so many of the suggestions here have been helpful!
He suffered during Covid, lost track of friends, but was always a gamer, and I could see how easily it could become 'everything'.
He already has a couple of out-of-house hobbies, one physical, one social; and I've pushed him into volunteering at a local charity shop (he's also applying for paid work, but with no success yet) - he's 16, and I agree, there don't seem to be the same opportunities for 'Saturday jobs' that there were when I was young.

Hello "" *("Hello", I apologise in I have no other word in relation towards English. Me (a man) saying hello towards a sister/woman is a big unkind).I write as a Man (Born);

I am 24 years old. I do not watch xxx content. When I was 12 years old my mother took me to a Unisex barbers. The only people there were women and the manager was also a woman. I saw a mazagine and opened it then I saw a xxx image and put it down immediately.

After that I was roped into the content. 7 Years ago I stopped. Nothing of the xxx content is of interest in scientfical and studies wise.
And of course I have no interest all of it makes me physically sick. I do not hold female hands or friends. I do not fetize women. I call out men 24/7 for misogyny. I am a Muslim. I dislike girlfriend and boyfirnd terms and find them revolting. I do not dream about women. I do not think about women. I do not follow women on social media.
My issues are cognitive and coordinate related. Not every single man who has issues should be compaed with women.

I do notunderstand why you are talking about men and relationships. When I was 15 years old I had a degreade in memory, cognitive abilities. I wrote out words and sentences on paper and did this for 4 pages each side and questioned myself without cheat and could never remember the sentence or word and Tried this with people. My maths capabities dropped severely.

My issues were not “trigger” themed they were functional issues. Hence why I have had trouble working and left University.
There is no issue such as role models. Insufficiency. Is the core problem amongst men. If we wish to talk about pshycolgy of men.

Men believe they are the pinicale of humanity. I said to a man whilst playing basketball that I do not play with women as I view women as supiror religiously and logically. He could not take it. He had to fight nonstop about the topic. These men say that they support women but when I say this he cannot handle it. My views and such are not your common men.

If you wish for an answer for men to fix their disgusting appearance. Men must have modesty.
Women are not objects. Women are not Animals.
I can answer you not matter what.

Kind Regards
Fahad Malik

Date:24/10/2022

Hello "" *("Hello", I apologise in I have no other word in relation towards English. Me (a man) saying hello towards a sister/woman is a big unkind).I write as a Man (Born);

I am 24 years old. I do not watch xxx content. When I was 12 years old my mother took me to a Unisex barbers. The only people there were women and the manager was also a woman. I saw a mazagine and opened it then I saw a xxx image and put it down immediately.

After that I was roped into the content. 7 Years ago I stopped. Nothing of the xxx content is of interest in scientfical and studies wise.
And of course I have no interest all of it makes me physically sick. I do not hold female hands or friends. I do not fetize women. I call out men 24/7 for misogyny. I am a Muslim. I dislike girlfriend and boyfirnd terms and find them revolting. I do not dream about women. I do not think about women. I do not follow women on social media.

My issues are cognitive and coordinate related. Not every single man who has issues should be compaed with women.
I do notunderstand why you are talking about men and relationships. When I was 15 years old I had a degreade in memory, cognitive abilities. I wrote out words and sentences on paper and did this for 4 pages each side and questioned myself without cheat and could never remember the sentence or word and Tried this with people. My maths capabities dropped severely.

My issues were not “trigger” themed they were functional issues. Hence why I have had trouble working and left University.
There is no issue such as role models. Insufficiency. Is the core problem amongst men. If we wish to talk about pshycolgy of men.
Men believe they are the pinicale of humanity. I said to a man whilst playing basketball that I do not play with women as I view women as supiror religiously and logically.

He could not take it. He had to fight nonstop about the topic. These men say that they support women but when I say this he cannot handle it. My views and such are not your common men.

Men must have modesty.

Women are not objects. Women are not Animals.
I can answer you not matter what.

Kind Regards
Fahad Malik

Date:24/10/2022

This is common problem with young male and female but why??There reason is usually how they were treated to this point .What you expect from young person when nothing was expected from him/her for many many years .It was acceptable for your mother to do everything for your bro and now suddenly she want him to know about life.Sorry mate the problem is within family.If doing nothing was alright few years ago why suddenly you and your family have a issue with this??Just because you can navigate trough life easier does not mean your brother will do the same.Now is the process of teaching him how to live a life ,which was missed by your mother.So she is at fault.Usually parent damage their children,do every for them when they are small and the minute they turn 18 the same parents expect everything from that child.Sorry but it is not working this way.And don’t forget that your brother will always be your brother successful or not.But how we measure succes is individual thing.Some people are happy with nothing but some are unhappy with everything.And one more very important thing ,people in mental institutions are there not because of their neighbours, bosses,teachers ,friends but because of their own family .Your bro is a human and he has a feelings.

I haven't rtft but reading this reminds me of teenage mental health worries a that stage of life such as eating disorders, addictions, withdrawing from society...like a more internalised depressive response,..in a way if they are locked in their bedrooms they are not developing, changing, learning new skills and continue to be heavily parented by those around them.

I know what you mean. I think as a teenager you cam write it off as adolescence and needing more sleep but my 18 yo used to spend all day sleeping and all night watching TV, gaming or on Social Media.
This began in lockdown when he was doing his GCSEs. Luckily his work ethics before this meant he got decent grades for GCSEs without doing them. Then A levels - he just managed to scrape through with the minimum required to get into his University of choice.
I was happy to take him down to the Uni (3 hours drive from us) as I believed "this would be the making of him" but now I spend most of my waking hours afraid he's sat in his Halls, not going into lectures and drowning in mental health issues. I message him regularly but you just don't know. It's awful.

Please stop blaming the parents. If your kid doesn't get a job - after literally hundreds of interviews - and there are no flats or studios - and no easy transport - what can you do? Society despises young men, they have no value - families don't need men any more, the workplace doesn't need them - so what are you supposed to do?? It's really, really hard.