To wonder how a £36k a year education can meet DS’s needs if a £250k one can’t?

[GoneBatty]

Private residential SEND college (out of area) costs £250k a year. They are saying DS’s needs are too high for them to manage.

Council are saying a £36k a year local outreach provision can meet his needs.

It’s all very fishy as SEND college at first said they felt they could meet DS’s needs so we visited, all was OK. As as soon as the council (who will have to fund it) got involved, college backtracked and said they couldn’t meet his needs.

They have given nonsensical reasons which I have mitigated numerous times. Both the college and council have told blatant lies and I’ve caught them out in two big ones!

Now we have reached Tribunal the college is suddenly full which was not an issue a few months ago so know they’re lying again as they would know numbers of students months in advance due to Tribunals and the time it take to get funding. Also most Tribunals due to take place over the summer were postponed for this age group.

AIBU to suspect the council has given the college a backhander to say they can’t meet his needs? It would cost council £750k for a 3 year program. They could have given a £100k ‘investment’ per se? Still saves a lot of money!

There is literally no other provision like this in the country. I have approached 21 other colleges, local and out of area. DS has had no proper provision for over a year and he is running out of time as age 20 - EHCP is to 25.

Do I sound nuts (I feel it)? Can this actually be possible?

While £250k a year seems really high, I can believe it. I used to see invoices for residential SEND education for my work which were at least half this cost and that was 10 years ago.

£250k pa on a full package of residential care and education is really not unusual.
The council will have a budget for this (,that is probably already under massive pressure) because socisl care and education provision are statutory duties for the council. For SEN children, education provision can go to 25. It isn't comparable with university provision for 18-21s.

There are children "in the system" whose care and education will cost six figures per year for much, if not all, of their school years and that's without any hope of independent living. This is the reality of high level needs.

If the council don't spend it now, they'll likely spend it from different budgets over the individual's lifetime not fixing any issues. which would not be any cheaper and possibly way less effective. At least this way there is the chance for more independent living and a better outcome for the individual.

I doubt the council have given a backhander - as a pp has said, they will have spotted a loophole.
Sadly, there is not enough money to go around and so councils are basically in the position of having to find reasons not to fund.

My experience is that legal representation is sometimes required in top of various reports

Well yes, they have to don’t they.

Say there is a budget of £100 and 10 pupils with SEND. There is local provision for £10 a head because that’s what the budget allows.

But then a private company pops up with superior provision for £30 a head.

Parents are going to fight for that aren't they. And yes, they can demonstrate 95% of the time that the provision is, indeed, superior. So they win the tribunal, the local authority have to pay the extra to the private company, and now the local provision is funded to the tune of £7 per head.

Then the next parent comes along, see that child A got the private provision, sees that it is superior to the local offer, and understandably fight the battle for their child and win as well.

Local provision now funded £4 a head.

The next child’s parents can’t afford a lawyer to take the LA to tribunal, so they get the £4 provision - tough shit. The LA HAVE to fight the next tribunal for THIS child. Tribunals only focus on the needs of the child under discussion. LAs have to meet the needs of ALL the children in their schools, and they know that a budget of £1 a head cannot possibly meet the needs of the rest of the children they cater for.

I don’t blame the parents. Everyone wants the best for their children. But if you want / need PUBLIC SERVICES to pay for your child’s education then you need to vote / campaign / protest for a government at local AND national levels who will PRIORITISE public services.

Unfortunately for you ,you are talking bollocks, and clearly have know idea how things work when it comes to SEND

Incorrect. Case law demonstrates obtaining qualifications isn’t a requirement for education to be provided and an EHCP to continue. Academic progress is only one part of an EHCP. And even when all further progress is only small the young person is still entitled to an education and EHCP.

I wouldn't be surprised if there have been "talks" Put in a SAR to both the college and the LA to find out what has been said. Hopefully they are more scrupulous than our LA and a school they wanted to place my daughter in though as despite two SARs, complaint to ICO, internal investigation by monitoring officer and the LA's senior legal advisor all ordering that the communication be released to me I have still never seen the communication between school and LA that determined that my academically able dd would be well placed in a school for pupils with MLD and SLD and no GCSE curricculum.

Plus an EHCP up to 25 should only be in place if a learner can make academic progress and achieve qualifications . It isnt about providing care

Fuck me. EHCP - Education, Health and Care Plan.

Those outraged at the cost, what do you propose the council does with young people with disabilities? The costs here are typical of how much it costs to educate someone with complex needs. Are you suggesting disabled young people aren't provided with the care/education they need? What's your alternative?

"Why should one person receive £750k worth of support when whole schools cannot provide adequate teaching assistant cover, when social carers cannot not their jobs properly as they are so stretched."

So what do you propose to do with people with complex needs?

The health and care bit of an ehcp is often the expensive bit.

@Lizthelettuce that isn't how tribunals work. They won't just grant the parents the more expensive school if the LAs offer is good enough. The reason LAs lose so many appeals is because they are trying to place children in settings that do not meet their needs.

@Mochachocolatte I recognise this to an extent, but they have no choice, read my post above.

Incorrect again. Parents don’t win tribunals because provision is superior. There is no right to the best education available, only one that is appropriate and reasonably required. If it was about a superior education the vast majority of appeals wouldn’t be upheld.

A lawyer isn’t required to win a Tribunal.

It is very difficult for local authorities and the government to decide where our money goes. You need the wisdom of Solomon. I don't envy them.

sn college if residential is massively expensive, dds was about 200 thousand.
but the difference it made to her was worth every penny.

and I think that was a year

It is very difficult for local authorities and the government to decide where our money goes. You need the wisdom of Solomon. I don't envy them.

Or they could just follow the law…

I don't know what the alternative is but there are some councils across the country at risk of section 114s. The money just isn't there, and obviously £750k going on one person will leave less money for everyone else. In the OP's case the council are offering an alternative for her adult son - albeit a much less costly one, so it might not be ideal, but we as a society have got to be practical as to where public resources go so they can do the most amount of good for the most amount of people. It is tragic for individuals such as the OPs son, but that's what happens when the Tories are voted in for many consecutive years.

So why does the government's choice to underfund schools and social services provision mean that children with SEN and disabilities should suffer even more through lack of adequate support?

Basically it’s like the health service, being drained dry by private providers.

You can’t really blame the providers because they’re fulfilling a need.

You can’t blame parents for wanting the best.

You SHOULD question why private providers were even needed in the first place.

And it would help to remember that every tribunal costs the public purse, with money taken directly from the SEND budget and the education of others. Please consider whether your child TRULY NEEDS the provision you are fighting for, and if so - campaign for political change.

(Sorry if repeating pp)
Message the National autistic society ASAP. They’ll call you. Ive had brilliant help from them.

You’re absolutely right to keep being critically minded in all this and to continue to advocate for your child.

The cost of any of this is not OP’s concern- she’s not responsible for it.

she is clearly doing the very best for her son- and fighting stuff like this in this country, which has APPALLING provision for SEND in most places, is exhausting and takes its toll.

And it would help to remember that every tribunal costs the public purse, with money taken directly from the SEND budget and the education of others. Please consider whether your child TRULY NEEDS the provision you are fighting for, and if so - campaign for political change.

Wow! Perhaps LAs should consider this before forcing parents to appeal knowing full well they will lose the vast majority of cases and before spending large sums of money on representation to defend indefensible cases against unrepresented parents. No parent goes to tribunal unless they believe their child needs the provision. It’s hilarious you think they do.

Everyone is not entitled to a personal budget for social care, they are entitled to assessment. My son has an ehcp and is in socialist school but we don’t qualify for any social care