EX has stopped child support, should I stop X-MIL from seeing child?

[Lfp]

I realise the title does indeed make me look totally unreasonable - but, bare with me.

A bit of history;

XH and DD (10) have not had contact for a year. He and his GF are abusive towards her. We are secretly in the process of full custody agreement.

divorce was 5 years ago and because of the same abusive/unreasonable behaviour.

XH and I had a agreement regarding child support for the last 5 years via a direct debit.

I have a DS too with my current fiancé &
work late evenings in a bar as that fits us best .

A couple of months ago, XH came into my place of work with GF and a friend of theirs for a drink, they peered through the glass to check I was there first - They do this every now and again, usually around an ‘event’. This particular time it was DD’s birthday, two days later.

GF also has a chequered history with another employee so they makes us both uncomfortable. As I was in charge of the shift, I politely told their friend “I’m sorry but you’re presence in here makes the staff uncomfortable myself included and nobody is willing to serve you - there’s plenty of other bars & I think you’d be better suited elsewhere” a minute later there was a lot of screaming and slagging off DD but, I didn’t react and they left.

XH has since tried to get me fired and has told a different version of events to the locals of the bar he knows.

Being refused service (and now subsequently barred) had damaged his pride massively so, he stopped child support payments as a FU. I know it has been cancelled because it usually goes in on the 13th of the month like clockwork, as he knows I have an irritation hatred of that number!

Now my XH is not a typical ‘deadbeat’ he has a successful business and several properties including a successful airbnb.

When we were together he earned over 90K a year and since our divorce his portfolio has continued to grow. Not that it matters, but FYI, I walked away from that marriage with enough for a down payment for a flat and nothing else, as I just wanted to escape. So his business, the family home and other assets stayed with him.

This is where X-MIL comes into it.

She is an accountant.

She fudges his books and puts all the properties and assets in her or her husbands name. They also hid a LOT during our divorce (which can even be seen via companies house!) not that I fought for them anyway. His filings show he claims to earn between 9-12K a year and all his other properties are out of his name. So when it comes to claiming maintenance payments through CSA it looks like - after expenses, he earns nothing and daughter won’t get the money she’s entitled too. fiancé, kids and I now live in a lovely house and do ok but we use the money for her hobbies: guitar lessons, rock climbing etc and anything extra needed.

X-MIL is his enabler. He is smart and crafty and he gets away with everything. I’ve reported his fraud several times but, they know all the loopholes.

X-MIL still has a relationship with DD on her terms, she’ll randomly text “can I see her on Sunday?” And then take her out for tea.

She’s text today asking for Friday or Sunday this week as it’s half term and I feel like I want to say no. DD isn’t too fussed either way and I feel like I want to set a boundary:
her son reinstates the maintenance payments or no, she can’t have access. She is the 2nd biggest factor as to why we can’t claim what she should be entitled too and there should be some blame consequences.

Maybe I’m just being petty? but, I’m tired of fighting this behaviour or been abused at work/school, having untrue rumours circulating. Im sick of been the bigger person and taking injustice on the chin.

DD isn’t a pawn I know but, I don’t know what else to say or do?

Unless your daughter really wants to go (she doesn’t, it seems) then no, I wouldn’t bother sending her.

I don’t blame you for how you feel btw. Your ex-MIL is as big a cunt as her son for enabling him.

I imagine the grandmother sees it as preventing money going to ex rather than granddaughter as granddaughter will likely be the beneficiary of her and her son’s estate. I’m not saying that’s right but I can see people justifying actions like that.

OP has said
1 DD is unbothered
2 she has reported him but MIL is an accountant and has hidden money.

No, I wouldn't stop her from seeing her grandma.

She isn't fussed because she is 10, but isn't actively saying that she doesn't want to go. That relationship could be important as she gets older, or it could fade away, but I would want that to be DD's decision not mine.

It is just the next step in a horrible game of tit for tat that escalates with each move.

You say he hid assets, he'll say that you maliciously reported him for fraud but it came to nothing because his bookworm is perfectly legal.

You say his mum hid assets, he'll say she did what any accountant would do and legally used every means at her disposal to minimise tax exposure.

You say he hasn't seen her for a year, he'll say you stopped him.

You say he comes in the pub to intimidate you, he'll say you refused to serve him and ultimately got him barred for no reason.

You say he stopped paying this month and that is indefensible. He has upped the ante considerably. But that doesn't mean you have to do that too.

And in all of this it sounds as if mil has tried to consistently have a relationship with dd. She has asked to see her and suggested two different days, and given some notice. You don't mention anything she has done wrong other than be a good accountant (because you reported fraud and it wasn't, it can't be, no matter what you think).

So personally I would be killing her with kindness. Showing myself to be reasonable, showing myself to have DD's best interests at heart and knowing that all of this might make her exert some positive influence over your awful ex and ultimately make things better for dd.

It is far more likely that assets have been split they way they have been on the advice from a Financial Advisor (an accountant wouldn't necessarily have the depth of knowledge on the subject).
Moving property into his parents names, assuming they've paid the necessary CGT might not have been done to spite the OP. It might just have made financial sense.
Every time a man makes decisions regarding money the first conclusion on mn is that he is hiding assets, I get it, some of them are but going off OP's post alone I'm not convinced with this one.
Also, not serving him at the bar, OP's choice obviously but I would say unprofessional and needlessly baiting the ex husband.
MIL may or may not know about her son 'hiding' money from his daughter, does she know he's stopped paying cms?

She isn't asking the grandmother to financially support her. She is however cross that the grandmother is willing to participate in holding assets in her name and hide assets so her son does not pay the correct amount of child maintenance commensurate with his actual income!

I can think of no situation where moving property into a parents name rather than your own is done other to protect it from a divorce split or to hide/protect it from creditors even if cgt has been paid.

I feel like I want to set a boundary:
her son reinstates the maintenance payments or no, she can’t have access
It's not a 'boundary' is it? You are using your child as a pawn.

The stopped maintenance aside, you clearly act as spiteful as he does. All this childish behaviour from you both, with your poor daughter stuck in the middle.

You seem to know a lot about what his mother, his accountant, has done to his books. Any chance you could be wrong, and just using your daughter to retaliate?

Many years ago, I was in the same situation.
I had a fantastic relationship with my exMIL throughout my marriage. I made sure her and my DD had a really strong bond.
exMIL is very wealthy and enabled her deadbeat of a son, my ExH all his life. And he was 55 when we divorced, so a long time.

After we separated, I made sure exMIL still played an active role in DD’s life. I invited her for dinner pretty much every other week, days out together etc, for my DD’s sake, she adores her granny. All good.

Not long after, ExH upped his abusive game, he couldn’t get to me, so he was abusive towards DD. I put my foot down and he did what he’s always done: called mummy. And mummy had the gall to come to my house and tried to tell me off. I told her to stay out of it, because enabling her son’s abusive behaviour was hurting DD and I won’t stand for it. Basically, his pick ups were erratic, either 2-3h late, or none at all and when I tried to talk to him about it he smirked: what, do you want to go out? DD should be your sole priority, and I’m busy, I’ll come when I can.
By that he meant whenever he wanted. And DD was waiting for him with her shoes on, ready to go: Daddy said he’ll be there here at 6, we’re going out for dinner. It was gone 8 by then, she refused dinner, because she was still waiting for this idiot. If DD made plans, he demanded she drops them, because it’s her time with Daddy. And he didn’t have a car, so he couldn’t drop her off at her friend’s party/swimming/sailing etc. And I wasn’t allowed to do that either, because it was in his time with her.

He knew I meant what I said: you’re here for 6 or you’re not having her. So he sent mummy. At 6.45. And mummy was rude and demanded I do whatever her precious son wanted, because ’we know how he is’. And I said no, it’s hurting DD, stay out of it.

That was the last time I saw her.
She continued to have a relationship with DD, but in her dad’s time. But more importantly, DD has healthy boundaries.

Sorry for the long post. What I’m saying is that OPs MIL and DD can still have a relationship, just in her dad’s time.

How are you "secretly in the process of full custody agreement"? Explain that to me, please.

YABU

Your DD having a relationship with her GP is a completely separate issue than all of the other issues.

You are using your DD as a pawn because you want to get back at your ex for stopping the child support, which he did because you refused to serve him - it’s all very petty and immature and there’s a child stuck in the middle of all of this childish behaviour.

You had no issue with ex MIL seeing DD until now.

@SeasonFinale precisely. You said yourself it could be to protect it from creditors. Not necessarily from his daughter. He could be trying to make sure there is something left to leave to her!
Obviously I don't know if this is the case (none if us do) but it seems to be another lazy assumption on mn that any financial management is always done with maximum effect to spite a previous partner. It is apparently never about trying to keep your head above water.

I wouldnt send any message about DD not seeing her. fake other plans, everytime!!

I'd want to be honest and say, I've reconsidered the arrangements with xh in light of the lack of maintenance payments and lack of contact between him and Dd. I'm not sure what's going on with it all, perhaps you could find out?f If you want to see Dd, it'll have to be when xh has her for contact. You're best off talking to him to sort it all out.

Yanbu. No loving father stops child support and goes to such lengths to avoid it.

It's not a healthy influence on her. DD needs to learn boundaries. I'd refuse.

I'm guessing that OP meant she is planning to apply to court for full residency and that she has started paperwork but not yet got to stage of submitting to court (ie still evidence gathering) and exH has not been served yet

OP would do well to remember that child contact is separate to issues of child maintenance / finances, that the judge will consider his unreliability in child contact and caring for child and behaviours aboyt that, not whether he defaults on CM or not. Although it's understandable to think they are linked, judges and F&C court do not see it that way.

Then you'd be making a mistake to involve the money side.

It would be better to not say anything at all but that child already is busy / has plans for MIL's random circumstances. Then if MIL applies to court for contact you just talk about her unreliability , lack of regular contact and that she could and should arrange with her son to see DD when he has her in contact.

I expected to say yabu.
I would probably say I’ll ask dd if she wants to see you. If you say no, will the shit storm ramp up? Depending on that, either she is busy or no, she’d rather not.
Does your dd have a phone? Can they contact her?

Sorry! I couldn’t read all that

You couldn't?! Why bother bloody replying then?!

I'm guessing that OP meant she is planning to apply to court for full residency and that she has started paperwork but not yet got to stage of submitting to court (ie still evidence gathering) and exH has not been served yet

@Tiani4 - but there is no such thing as "full residency" in the U.K., a consent order / child arrangements order consists of lives with (resident parent) / spends time with (non resident parent). Yes I get that dad has allegedly been abusive to child and mum, but if he went to court for child matters he could still get a contact order. No contact is a pretty difficult order to attain, even parents who have done some serious damage to their own children can get indirect.

Yep.

Sorry we are busy, you can see her during EXH contact hours.

If his business dealings and her accountancy aren't al above board perhaps HMRC might need a call?

It doesn't sound like this is a relationship with someone that has DDs best interests at heart. On that basis I would stop contact. Don't say why though. Just text back: sorry, that doesn't work for us. And ignore any further questions. Don't give them any information or they will use it against you someday.

I would go by what dd wants to do.

If she wants to see her Nan, let her. If she doesn’t, don’t

Your MiL is enabling the man who you are trying to disengage with DD's life.

XH and DD (10) have not had contact for a year. He and his GF are abusive towards her. We are secretly in the process of full custody agreement.

Of course you should stop contact with her - DD isn't fussed about her, & she is actively colluding to deprive her own GC of the maintenance she is owed.

Congratulations on how well you held it together at the bar btw.
Chase the CMS to reinstate his payments.
Once you have been through the process of full custody, I'd also be very tempted to blow his tax & maintenance dodging ways up. Either hire a forensic accountant/lawyer, or just dob him in for evasion & fraud.

You sound like you have your head screwed on OP.
Disengage from this toxic mess, cut ex-MiL out of your lives along with her revolting son.