Page 20 | To think it's not normal for over 35% of teachers to have cried at work this term?

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 2022-10-21T17:27:03+00:00

Whenever we talk about teacher working conditions, teacher strikes etc on here people always point out that lots of others have really stressful jobs. But this can't be normal in any job, surely? It's not even people who've cried about work- just people who've cried at work. I think this is really indicative of the stress a lot of teachers are under, and the real reason a strike is on the cards. But it's hard to strike about workload/stress/behaviour/parental and SLT expectations- whereas striking over pay is legally straightforward.

Topgub · 22/10/2022 20:23

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds

👏

Worriedddd · 22/10/2022 20:23

CurlyhairedAssassin · 22/10/2022 17:32

I;ve been support or admin staff in education for 20 years, across all age groups, and while my job is very busy and pressured it's nothing like what a teacher experiences. When you are in sole charge of 30 other demanding people there is nowhere to hide. You are "on stage" with all eyes looking at you and you have to be competent and resilient and give your all at all times. In most jobs there is a team of people working with you most of the time. Someone who can take up the slack and make you a cuppa if they know you're feeling on the edge and close to tears. To send you to the break room/canteen/round the block for 10 mins change of scene or fresh air. If there isn't a team right there with you then it usually means you have an office of your own. A desk to hide behind to cry into your tissues and get the stress out that way uninterrupted. You can put your phone on answerphone while you have a sob and release the tension.

There is very little time during the school day when teachers are able to not be "on show" to children or parents. Usually on break times that they're not on break duty they're prepping for next lesson or dealing with a pupil who is having an issue. If they have time to use the toilet to quickly empty their bladder then that is a good break time. Any tears that do flow have to be quickly away because they haven't got time to let the floodgates open properly to end up a snotty mess. Lunchtimes are just as busy and often involve ringing a parent or doing dining hall duty, or running to the office to order supplies or photocopy.

After school they're dealing with parents on the phone, meeting with colleagues to discuss curriculum stuff (no time to discuss personal stuff really), marking and prepping. There is no let up at home at night because there is more marking and prepping and emails to answer.

I'm not at all surprised at the figures, OP. Teachers are like pressure cookers. There is no let up and eventually they burst. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done to avoid it because of the nature of the job. Outside life pressures like cost of living and worries about elderly parents only will get worse and build their stress up more.

I thinkA&E staff are probably similar. Although if things get too much for them they can usually take a few mins in the staff room or a corridor to pull themselves together and talk to someone else who knows how they feel, before heading back out to deal with the next patient. But a teacher can't leave a class of children alone for any length of time so there is just no opportunity to release a build up of pressure before it gets too much.

Absolutely bullshit , healthcare is nothing like teaching. I did a placement in a SEMH school and no it's not the same. One you can't just sit in the office and cry,or cry to your colleagues you probably won't get a break at all. I was bitten last week by a patient. I've had shit/piss thrown at me, I've had my hair torn out, punched. You see people dying and have to be with them, then move on to the next thing. I never see HCPs complaining half as much as teachers on MN.

I've got respect for teachers but please don't compare it to a job that handles life and death.

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:24

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds

I’m not having a pop at social workers or CAHMS staff. What is happening is not really in their control. They are understaffed and under resourced and trying their best.

What needs to happen is more money for those services. More people and more support for those services so that they can support young people.

I get that the people who are there are doing their best and it is not their fault. We are all just doing our best.

All I am pointing out is that while we are waiting for those referrals to come through it is often school staff who bear the brunt of the behaviour issues that stem from the problems that are unaddressed.

And I don’t think services are being deliberately not helpful. I think the government has taken an over all decision that schools will just have to cope without extra support and they then expect teaching and support staff to pick up the slack.

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:27

And I am well aware that they are our best allies. But there are too few of them because if government cuts.

Which is how my school has ended up feeding, clothing and providing mental health care for a growing list of students.

More money for social care services would take a huge weight off schools.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:27

@Legrandsophie

Right, but it really didn't sound like that, did it? Read what you wrote.

Also, no. You are not the only service bearing the brunt of children's needs at the moment, are you?

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:28

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds

Why so aggressive?

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:30

You think I'm being aggressive?

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 20:32

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:27

@Legrandsophie

Right, but it really didn't sound like that, did it? Read what you wrote.

Also, no. You are not the only service bearing the brunt of children's needs at the moment, are you?

I can’t think of another service that is supporting children’s social care as much as education is currently. Who else is baring the brunt of it?

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:35

Your tone is really combative. I am agreeing with you. Social workers and CAHMS staff do a great job and it isn’t their fault they are under funded.

My earlier comment is that services (by which I mean the managers of those services- ultimately the government) have been forced to make so many savings that they are no longer running safely and therefore lots of what they did has been pushed back into school staff (especially non-teaching pastoral leads) who don’t have the training or resources to deal with it.

It is a lose/lose situation all round.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:35

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 20:32

I can’t think of another service that is supporting children’s social care as much as education is currently. Who else is baring the brunt of it?

Show quote history

You can't think of another service that is bearing the brunt of children's needs?
Really?

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 20:36

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:35

You can't think of another service that is bearing the brunt of children's needs?
Really?

Show quote history

No…am I missing something really obvious? I genuinely can’t think!

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:40

As an example of what I am talking about:

A friend of mine is a school DSL. They currently have a child with severe mental health issues and suicidal ideation and self harm. They out in an urgent CAHMD referral and was told 18 months to be seen unless the kid actually made an attempt to kill themselves. They are now having to seek out counselling paid for (somehow) by school and doing monitoring in school.

The system is fucked.

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:40

Sorry CAHMS not CAHMD. Stupid fat thumbs.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:42

You must be on a wind up, surely.
I've been polite on this thread. I've acknowledged the challenges teachers face, I've said things do need to change, I'd support any IA needed to improve conditions, however it's a turn off to others who do experience similar issues and emotions to suggest they don't. And you can't even acknowledge any other professions that could be bearing the brunt of children's needs at the moment? Not any? Apart from teachers?

HikingforScenery · 22/10/2022 20:43

They cried at work but it could be due to reasons outside work.
As pp’s said, other professions could be just the same or worse.
It’s not a race to the bottom but stress at work should be tackled for everyone.

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 20:44

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 20:42

You must be on a wind up, surely.
I've been polite on this thread. I've acknowledged the challenges teachers face, I've said things do need to change, I'd support any IA needed to improve conditions, however it's a turn off to others who do experience similar issues and emotions to suggest they don't. And you can't even acknowledge any other professions that could be bearing the brunt of children's needs at the moment? Not any? Apart from teachers?

I didn’t say teachers, I said ‘education’. And no, I can’t. What is?

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 20:45

What is bearing the brunt for child social care more than education currently?

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:48

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds

I have acknowledged that social workers have it hard at the moment. I imagine the A&E staff are also seeing their fair share of horrific abuse injuries to kids at the moment too.

Anyone is public service knows that public services are fucked.

And yes. Your post do come across as though you are having a go. I have said specifically that I don’t think teachers have it the worst.

What I am saying is that working conditions for teachers (and I imagine everyone else in the public sector) are the worst they have ever been and I can see why so many people are leaving.

This whole term has felt like we’ve been holding on to the school (especially behaviour) by our finger tips and any moment it could all go horribly wrong.

I’ve never had that feeling before. That senses that there was no amount of time and effort I could put into this to stop the whole bloody thing collapsing round us. But again I imagine everyone in hospitals, social care and the police feels the same.

Applesandcarrots · 22/10/2022 20:49

HikingforScenery · 22/10/2022 20:43

They cried at work but it could be due to reasons outside work.
As pp’s said, other professions could be just the same or worse.
It’s not a race to the bottom but stress at work should be tackled for everyone.

I think this yhread show it's race to the bottom.

Tbf so is everything on mn

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:50

100% @Applesandcarrots

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 21:02

You said you can't think of one profession supporting children's social care like education does.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 21:05

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 20:48

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds

I have acknowledged that social workers have it hard at the moment. I imagine the A&E staff are also seeing their fair share of horrific abuse injuries to kids at the moment too.

Anyone is public service knows that public services are fucked.

And yes. Your post do come across as though you are having a go. I have said specifically that I don’t think teachers have it the worst.

What I am saying is that working conditions for teachers (and I imagine everyone else in the public sector) are the worst they have ever been and I can see why so many people are leaving.

This whole term has felt like we’ve been holding on to the school (especially behaviour) by our finger tips and any moment it could all go horribly wrong.

I’ve never had that feeling before. That senses that there was no amount of time and effort I could put into this to stop the whole bloody thing collapsing round us. But again I imagine everyone in hospitals, social care and the police feels the same.

I haven't meant to come across as having a go - however I will stand firm that what you are feeling is incredibly familiar to many others, will have been for a long time, and for very similar reasons. It's a bit crap that that position seems to be one that feels attacking, it's not.
You're speaking of what you don't know, even the throwaway 'i imagine A&E staff see abuse injuries'. Please, this is a genuine request, stop trying to compare - it's really unhelpful and just alienates people who want to support you.

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 21:05

That wasn’t me.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 21:07

Legrandsophie · 22/10/2022 21:05

That wasn’t me.

I've quoted you and replied

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2022 21:07

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 22/10/2022 21:02

You said you can't think of one profession supporting children's social care like education does.

That was me, although I said ‘bearing the brunt of’. And you still haven’t named another service that’s doing more than education to support children’s social care.