To think it's not normal for over 35% of teachers to have cried at work this term?

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

Whenever we talk about teacher working conditions, teacher strikes etc on here people always point out that lots of others have really stressful jobs. But this can't be normal in any job, surely? It's not even people who've cried about work- just people who've cried at work.

I think this is really indicative of the stress a lot of teachers are under, and the real reason a strike is on the cards. But it's hard to strike about workload/stress/behaviour/parental and SLT expectations- whereas striking over pay is legally straightforward.

@Hariborrrrr

Let me break it down for you. You asked the question:
"Why do people insist on coming on threads like this to insist they have it worse?!"

I offered an explanation "perspective". This was based on the fact that almost no one has actually said they have it worse - they have just offered observations of other roles/other forms of paid employment and attendant stress.

You needed 2 Es to go to Cambridge.

1. The poster says friends and relations
2. Friends can be any age
3. Are you alway a dick?

Sorry, I'm slow tonight....
So by telling teachers other jobs are just as hard or harder, the hope is to give some perspective. Ok I understand that, however, I don't think it really helps. I think we should all be able to have a good rant about the fact our jobs are making us cry, without people coming along to say 'well I have it worse because I work 100 hours a week bla bla bla'
Maybe I'm feeling sensitive over the nursing strikes. But I absolutely think we should all be fighting for better working conditions that mean we can do our jobs, without crying in the workplace. I'm sure most teachers went into the job with aspirations of making a difference, so I can forgive them for being pissed off that the job they're paid to do isn't what they thought it would be

@ItsFlippingBoiling Eh? You needed 2Es for Oxbridge if you passed their written paper. Otherwise it was AAB.

@Hariborrrrr
I'm the one who mentioned working 100 hour weeks. I did not say I have ever had it worse. I just offered the perspective of what working hard looks like for me. I also suggested nurses, social workers etc have a hard time too (an extremely hard time!) but don't appear to suffer from the collective 'we're worked too hard' that teachers do. And nurses etc cannot say 'if I haven't had holiday this month then I'm guaranteed it next month' like teachers can. Just a reflection. An observation from the outside. Some perspective.

In terms of introducing perspective. How does your wage compare with the average teacher?

Honestly, if you are crying in the classroom then leave for another profession because you’re not helping children

Yes I was surprised about that. 1 in 3 is surely shocking. I know people of all jobs cry at work, but 1 in 3 is a LOT! And it's not just crying about work, its crying AT work!

I understand what you are saying.
These kind of threads always go the same way though. It's like a competition as to who has it worse.
Let the teachers have their rant and argue for better working conditions. Let the private sector fight their battles. We don't need to compare. I'll say it again, it is not a race to the bottom.
Im sure your job is very important, but I've got children, that need a decent education. I don't want teachers crying in a cupboard between lessons.

We would all be pretty buggered if those kind of numbers all left though, surely 🤷‍♀️

2 E offer in 1986
no paper taken

The Queen died during this term by the way

@ItsFlippingBoiling it was Oxford where you could still get 2 E offers in the 90s. I don’t think Cambridge was offering them by then. Even at Oxford they had become relatively rare by 1995.

The average grade actually attained by students attending was AAA/AAB, often with multiple S levels and Step papers and this was before A* grades..

I taught in a Russell Group university in the 90s and the education students had the lowest entry grades of any degree course.

In some countries eg Germany the entry requirements for teaching in terms of exam grades are very high and teaching is really well paid. I would like to see us move to this model.

I thought that is what has been happening, and why there is a teacher recruitment crises.

The pay is actually very poor. Holidays are not great either - most jobs get 5-6 weeks, teachers get 13 weeks but then they have to work about 3-4 weeks while they’re technically on holiday, so they’re not much better off. And of course they’ve worked stupid amounts of unpaid overtime during the term.

The reason teachers don’t leave is firstly because they genuinely care about the kids and want to make a difference, and secondly because they’re not qualified for anything else and don’t really have any alternative.

@Florenz the pay? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I earn £27,600 per year. Yeah. I'm in it for the dosh.

@VerinMathwin did you pay for your empathy bypass, or was it on the NHS? You're nitpicking (or mocking?) children who were devastated by the deaths of people they loved. One child lost her ten month old brother to Covid. Funny, eh? Go on, score another point off that child's grief.

I don't know a single teacher who thinks their job is harder than any other. I know a load who would like non-teachers to understand that it is a tough job, and not to be derided for having long holidays, finishing work at 3.30 (oh, the dream), or being paid a fortune (ha). I know I would like to have an Education Minister in post who has the faintest idea about what children actually need in order to learn. Is that me being unreasonable?

This whatabouttery of 'well, my job is hard too, you don't see me complaining' is mealy-mouthed and shows a worrying lack of understanding.

For comparison, parents of children with SEND don't engage in this strange competition. They support and encourage one another. No one tries to claim they 'win' the My Life Is Hardest contest, they sympathise and suggest ideas to help. Have a look on the SEN board here if you don't believe me.

It's amazing how many people who think teaching is easy don't sign up for ITT. We're desperate for teachers - come on then, come and apply.

The figures mask the fact that 35% is averaged across schools. I would say in my previous large maths department, approximately 75% of us cried at work in the last year, entirely caused by unmanageable stress. At my new school, I've seen two people cry, one over a deceased loved pet, and myself during an extreme hormonal episode (I'm being extremely well supported through perimenopause, and it was probably the contrast between the two schools that had me so emotional).
Some workplaces are toxic. It certainly isn't just limited to teaching, but there are a lot of toxic workplaces in teaching. I feel sorry for all workers in toxic workplaces everywhere, be they nurses, teachers, restaurant staff or Amazon pickers. No-one should have to work like that and i hope you all get out like i did.

Honestly, if you are crying in the classroom then leave for another profession because you’re not helping children

I mean, it’s difficult to know where to start. People are leaving the profession. There is a Facebook group aimed at supporting teachers out and it currently has over 80,000 members. It is both a positive group and a depressing place to be - many posts daily from people whose jobs have become untenable: experienced teachers being bullied out, teachers unable to attend hospital appointments without being threatened with disciplinary, young teachers left with no support whatsoever. And then the positive posts: I got a new job, I’ve resigned without a job to go to. People sharing job applications to help others. It’s not one a month, or one a week, it’s many every single day. .

In my subject, ITT was at 36% of it’s requirement this September. That means that every one of those ECTs will have their pick of the jobs. They will move into the independent sector immediately or the best state schools. They won’t need to consider a job in even an average school. And most of our kids attend average schools. Do you realise what this means? At best, your average kid will be taught by a non-specialist (but they will still be pitted against those kids taught by the specialists in the best schools at exam time). In some schools, they might secure specialist supply, but more likely there’ll be a head of department providing cover lessons for an ever-changing array of non-specialists. Some schools are now teaching their exam groups with 90 plus kids in halls with one teacher it’s got that bad. In the primary sector, your children are routinely taught by TAs when the teachers are absent because schools can’t afford qualified supply, even assuming a qualified teacher could be found on supply.

The educational gap is widening before our eyes and parents are more concerned that teachers leave on some misguided premise that they are useless rather than they are retained, supported and paid properly. If you can’t afford to pay for your child’s education and can’t get your child into the best school locally, you really need to give your head a wobble right now. Your children are not getting much of an education anymore, let alone the education they deserve or the education we should expect in one of the world’s most successful economies,

I have cried several times at work this half term and I'm usually a person who gets irritated with crying. I was mortified bursting into tears in a meeting but the job is so stressful and at times just gets completely and utterly overwhelming. If I ever cry in front of a class though, I would quit.

The 'Leaving Teaching' Facebook group now has 97,000 members.

Teachers and TAs are leaving the profession.

please quote evidence about chain academies only having teachers under 30

oh wait - there isn’t any

@OldManEmu

Look at what you've written! This is exactly my point. You've just completely written off threats/violence/abuse faced in other professions as basically ok because you feel they have special means to deal with it that you don't?

It's really not helpful and it just isolates you from support (in my opinion).

The thing is this isn't a 'teacher having a rant' thread, which of course they should be able to do and where it's not helpful for non-teachers to jump in.
However the opening original post brings other professions in, that's the question, that's the comparison, that's the whole point of the thread. There's an incredulity that anyone suffers like teachers. Of course there will be some challenges unique to teaching, and some they never have to worry about or deal with.
My point is not that 'you are not special' but 'you are not alone' and I think if teachers could see how universal some of their reasons for crying at work are, they might feel comfort and support and solidarity.