Is this benefit fraud?

[ahzixy]

I recently have gotten back together with the father of my kids. We've been seeing each other and he's been staying over at my house. I claim housing benefit.

He doesn't pay towards any of my bills and I don't to his either.

We've always had an agreement between the two of us that he pays £200 per month in child maintenance. That is all he pays to me. In times I have borrowed money like small amounts( but I also do this with my mum and that doesn't tie us financially)

His car is registered at his house, all his bills etc, his work has him as registered at his house.

My name is on my wifi bill, phone bill and I have pre paid metres under my name.

He pays all his council tax etc and gas and electricity which in his one bed flat cost £70 combined but he's paying of a huge debt so he pays £300-400 a month to that.

Things like days out etc or new things for the kids we do go half.

I've also gotten him things through catalog credit like very and Argos since his credit is bad so every other month he will bank transfer money for that but he labels each transfer (I know that doesn't hold much)

We have 3 kids together and he is over often and on his days off takes the kids to and from school.

My close friends would say we are seeing each other but neighbours I exchange polite exchanges would say we are a couple.

I know it's nothing to do with nights spent here it's about finances. I have a lot of proof he pays nothing to my house.

The only thing is I use his Netflix. But before this I used my best friends nextflix too I only changed to his to not lose my place on shows.

The only thing is he's so tight with money even before seeing me he never had wifi. We can prove this also. But to me that looks odd no wifi.

He's also the cheapest person I know with bills. He refuses to have heating on, does washing at his parents house and showers at his gym. Making his bills as low as possible.

My downstairs neighbours told me to my face in April they've reported him living here. Nothing at all came from this so surely it's not fraud??

Is it fraud?? I'm terrified I really don't like this situation and want to get him added asap but we literally couldn't afford to live if he did with his huge debts and until he sells his house.

Can you show a link to the OP where it says that with DWP? That would be helpful for her.

Best advice yet. Most of the so called experts here would have her locked up simply cause she’s on benefits with a boyfriend.

I can't believe how gullible some people are. Wake up!

He's living with OP - she says he was there a whole week last week. He keeps his property because he owns in. Living with the OP means they can keep a property that they own AND claim a full whack of benefits because the OP is treated as single

Can't believe people actually think DWP wouldn't see this as benefit fraud.

So if he only stays a week this week and not for the next three weeks is he still living there? What is written is a snapshot. Can only go off what is written. As I don’t lie much, I don’t make the assumption that everyone is lying.

now if she said he had moved someone in his place whilst staying at hers then yeah. Benefit fraud.
Should they have set days? Probably, should her neighbour mind her own business even bigger yes.

@ahzixy

I recently have gotten back together with the father of my kids.

Isn't the answer obvious given your opening statement...?

You're a couple that currently has two houses. Many couples have that situation however other hard working folk the government shouldn't have to fund them both for you. I'm pretty sure that's fraud, and if not, it's at the very least immoral.

You're missing the point. Yes, the fact he has another house counts for something but that is not sufficient for DWP to say ok no problem, we will keep paying OPs benefits.

They look at:
Does he stay over
How often
Do they eat together
Do they have days out together
Do they holiday together
How they attend family events together
How do people view their relationship status
Are ANY of his belongings in OPs house

Based on the above and from what is said here, he is absolutely living with OP and should be seen as such.

He owns a property and OP knows that if they 'lived together' she would be worse off - she says that. So instead, they keep a separately owned property for future investment purposes, he keeps his bills to a minimum by showering in the gym (let's face it, this was a lie,, if he's in the OPs for a week at a time he's not going to the gym to use the shower), and washing his clothes in his parents (again, willing to bet OP washes his clothes too) and OP claims as many benefits as she can as a single person.

The difference between this scenario and other posters nieces and nephews and cousins dog or whatever nonsense comparisons people are making, is that the OP and her OH are in a relationship and have children together. They are a family. They are a family where the mother is claiming to be a single parent and she is not.

OP if you genuinely think what you're doing is fine, ring DWP Monday and tell them the situation and the exact facts and let them decide. If you don't want to do this (and let's face it, if you did you would have done that instead of posting here) then you know it's benefit fraud.

I agree seriously just give them a ring. They won't be like AH HA GOTCHA! They'll be like thanks for letting us know yes that counts as living together or no it doesn't.

Oops, I may have been wrong about the three days. Anyway this is how the DWP decide if you are a couple.

www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm15040

Some very unpleasant comments on here. It is always tricky when the relationship is uncertain. OP is trying to keep on the right side of the law. She is financially independent and trying to make a go of it with her ex. Absolutely nothing wrong with this in a legal sense. Whether or not he is someone any of us think she should be in a relationship is not our business though we do hope OP that you set your bar a bit higher.

You are wrong. It IS to do with staying over. You can have someone stay over 3 nights a week. Any more then you need to notify the council and benefits office. It is you who will be caught out, not your boyfriend.

This is false information. The three night rule doesn't exist.

This.

Citation? Then why did my housing officer say it did?

Okay you say I’m missing point. I don’t know if it’s benefit fraud or not. What I do know is op didn’t say in her post:

they eat together;
they have days out together
they holiday together
whether they have or intend to attend family events together
not sure why anyone’s opinion of their relationship should count, but she specifically said friends know they’re not together like that, so it’s just the neighbour.

not trying to be obtuse, but you’ve inferred a lot whereas all that’s really true is he stays there often. I’m not even sure if he has belongings there, though if he stays a few nights (or week) at a time, he probably does have at least a toothbrush.

however I do agree she should ring the experts. Then she’s covered all bases.
I personally would end the relationship rather than trying to rush back into it again because of these issues.

Google it and you'll see across the official Government websites that it's a myth. It's a common misunderstanding, I'm not sure where it originated from, unless it used to be the rule many years ago

Ask the housing officer. They would surely be able to back it up with a written policy. If they can’t provide you with one, the answer may be that they use it as a scare tactic to keep you in line, or the rules changed and they haven’t updated their knowledge.

Ok, so you think that potentially OPs OH (the father of her children) stays in her house for a full week (just going off last week). At breakfast time he leaves and goes to eat elsewhere, at tea time, he leaves and goes elsewhere. He doesn't keep any belongings in the OPs so he just goes back and forth to his place for his toothbrush, clothes, shoes etc. All his washing for the week he bags up and leaves OPs house and takes to his parents. OP has already said they have days out together and that neighbors and the like would see them as a couple.

It doesn't take a genius to understand he's not doing all of the above if he is staying in the OPs back to back each night

It always was. I'm more interested at which point it stopped because as recently as this year my housing officer still quoted it.

She’s not financially independent - she relies on benefits, hence her worry that these could be withdrawn if council decides they are a couple living together.

But anyways, OP is pretending to be single for financial gain while her BF owns property. It would be rather naive to believe he doesn't contribute a penny to her household while living there full time. I think I'm this scenario she knows full well she's taking the Mick.

Have you googled it? HMRCs website says it's a misconception. I'm not sure they would be wrong and your housing officer would be correct

www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm15150#:~:text=The%203%20nights%20rule%20is,%2C%20in%20isolation%2C%20reliable%20evidence.

They did get back together recently if the neighbour reported them in April. This is long term benefit abuse.

As always with these sort of threads, there are loads of posters posting what they THINK should be the case, and not what is actually the case.

Some have it right, there is no 3 night rule, and some have actually posted what is looked at, such as eating together, living intertwined lives etc.

I say this as a Compliance officer for DWP and this is one of the things I look at on a daily basis. The OP may not have heard anything yet as there is a big backlog of cases, I'm still looking at allegations made in 2020/21.

From what you have posted here you are on thin ice, when the referral comes through it will be allocated to a compliance officer who will arrange a telephone interview with you and ask you lots of questions. All this info will then go to a decision maker who will make the decision. I could see it go either way, so my advice would be to contact dwp and inform them what you wrote here and let them sort it out.

@Autumndays123 No sorry just looked up the DWP policy kindly provided by a PP. The scenario as written out by the OP (so no inference on my part), depends on quite a few criteria, but the one that stands out to me is the length of the relationship and how likely they are to split again.

No offence to the OP, but statistically it’s more likely to be a Liz Taylor/Richard Burton scenario than not. But she might be aware of that which is why she is reticent about sharing more with him (now I am inferring).

btw I’m clearly not a genius. But staying one week doesn’t mean he’s staying every week. Leaving a few bits at a girlfriend’s house to make it easier when staying doesn’t mean they are living as husband and wife.

from her post, she ticks less boxes than you suggest. However as I said previously, all she has to do is call.

Op didn't you post this the other day? Why are you asking again?