Pram debacle on the bus

[bibetyboo]

Boarded the bus today with 9mo asleep in pram, underneath of pram half full. In the designated pram area there were a couple of shopping trolleys that had been left by two elderly passengers. The driver asked for them to be removed so that I could fit pram in, but both of them contested that I should not have been let on the bus and ought to have waited for the next one.

The driver looked at me and apologized and I replied that it was fine, I would just stand with her somewhere out of the way (the gangway really). It was pissing down with rain, and buses here come every hour.

Whilst standing with pram, both trolley owners began to mutter, enough so I could hear, about my being on the bus. That I ought to have waited for the next bus, that it's ridiculous as in their day they would have to take the pram down. I was entitled and privileged. Lots of sighing and eye rolling.

At this point I'm fuming. I've let it go, not challenged the trolley parking and am just trying to get home. Acquaintance of trolley owner begins to witter on about how on earth he will get off the bus with 'that woman and her baby'. Trolley owner explains nice and loud, 'she'll just have to get off in the rain'.

Patience. Reached. The bus is PACKED at this point. I ask 'acquaintance' to mind his business and asks both trolley owners why they are so hateful towards a young woman, getting on the bus with her baby, followed by, in the fog of rage, telling them to simply 'fuck off'.

All parties were silenced and the remainder of the bus journey was tense to say the least. It involved a few three point turns and reversing to allow other passengers OFF and ON.

Now I feel terribly guilty that I shouted at an elderly person.

EQUALLY, I've come to realise there is an old sun culture within the elderly or let's say 'older' community. This bizzare disdain for the 'youth of today' who have 'never had it so easy'. Lol, come see me when we remortgage next month (HELP).

Was I unreasonable to tell them where to go?

I really enjoyed your post, half way down I was really hoping you told them off, dont feel guilty... they were rude and unsupportive,there was no need for any of it and it was not down to you, bloody bus Mafia!

Some older people can be so bloody entitled. I empathise OP!

There's not on any bus I've been on in the past few years. There's a tiny luggage rack at the front which you have to lift your luggage onto and which is really shallow meaning a shopping trolley would just fall off, but now where specifically for shopping trolleys.

Good for you OP. I wouldn’t have moved a sleeping baby on a moving bus to ensure space for someone’s shopping trolley either. Women with small children are some sort of easy target for bullies. You had every right to take up that space, some people won’t be happy until women and babies do not exist in public space. Some people are obsessed with the fact that they had it harder and therefore it should be unnecessarily hard for you too. Do you think they’d have goaded a man with a pram in the same way?

There is this bizarre attitude that because you’ve chosen to have a child you are somehow lower down the societal pecking order than absolutely everyone else, less you be ‘entitled’.

• Perhaps you should take some of the advice in this screenshot yourself: "If the designated area is already occupied, please fold the pram or stroller"

You acted just as unreasonable and entitled as the elderly people. Stop having a go at the elderly when you were just as wrong

Don't be daft. A shopping trolley does not count as occupied. Just like bags and umbrellas in the space or on seats don't mean they're occupied.

If they were talking rudely and loudly about you, sounds like they were looking for an argument. Presumably if they were travelling on the bus back from town, they're compos mentis, and not completely frail and decrepit!

If there's a next time, maybe avoid the cursing, mainly so you don't have to worry about it afterwards. Can see how it would slip out though!!

Agree with this. Bus driver is king of the bus. He was on OPs side.

I don't think you were being unreasonable. I do however think the bus driver let you down massively, HE should've asked them to move their trolleys for your pram and kept on at them till they did. As for the constant sniping I'd have told them to fuck off too and not because I don't have the vocabulary to express myself correctly but because sometimes that's the only language some folk understand. Nothing to do with age, act like a entitled twat expect to be told where to go.

Probably shouldn't have told them to fuck off but don't blame you for doing it. They were essentially bullying you so you've given them something to think about and who knows, maybe they won't be so vocal in future in case they get an earful off someone 😄

It’s not designated for prams. It’s for wheelchairs but prams permitted unless a wheelchair user needs it. There’s a difference.

Just because the elderly people were wrongfully taking up the pram area doesn't mean the OP was entitled to block the bus for the rest of the innocent passengers.

But there were no wheelchairs so the point doesn't matter.

They should have moved their trolleys.
That's all there is to it.

In that situation I'd have just shifted my trolley as best as I could to make as much space as possible. However, I absolutely disagree with posters claiming prams have priority. My trolley is a disability aid, it's even got the hospital ownership label underneath. I have the legal right to have my trolley with me, you don't have the legal right to take a pram.

Good for you! Don't feel bad. They totally deserved to be told to "fuck off" and should have done so. Complaining you and your baby weren't left to stand in the rain for an hour? Arseholes

All the ones I've seen literally have a picture of a pram

On the other hand I remember being 9 months pregnant on a bus with all seats taken and nobody offering me their seat except for an elderly lady with a crutch. I thanked her and refused of course. And older people being kind to me and my children on plenty of other occasions.

I was raised to offer my seat to elderly or anyone with heavy bags or children or who looked like they might be struggling even if they don't ask. If this woman didn't treat me like shit I would've given her the damn seat too. But she insisted I had no right to be there in the first place and it was clearly her choice rather than a necessity to stand there and harass me.

Yes, people used to have to fold their buggies. This was in the day of bus conductors who would hold the bus rather than allow the driver to speed off, and would usually lend a hand with stashing it under the bus stairs, etc.

YANBU OP.

They were incredibly rude and entitled.

It’s very rude of them to generalise about young people and it’s very rude of you to generalise about old people.

Local bus service to me used to insist prams were folded even on an empty bus in case someone in a wheelchair needed to go on - blanket rule. I understood why but it wasn’t easy. In some ways it was better to know in advance that this would need done as it meant I had to prepare in advance of getting on the bus - but really shit in the rain.

Actually, I think the bus driver was in the wrong.

The pram had priority over the shopping. The driver should have made the trolley owners move, and also should never have taken off with your buggy in the gangway. That's not safe.

Every bus I've ever got, the word of the driver has been law - because if anyone's dared argue, the driver has just turned off the keys and refused to budge. Usually the threat of the bus not moving is enough for the other passengers to enforce the driver's word without the driver moving an inch.

It's simple: wheelchairs always first, then prams, then anything bulky. You fold your pram for a wheelchair or get off (I don't care if the baby is asleep), but you don't fold your pram for someone's shopping.

This wasn’t in the time of bus conductors- I don’t remember those.

YANBU at all. People can be cunts.

What about everyone else on the bus they don't need to hear it.

You can still win with words by being calm and business like. It's a skill .
You've lost when you start swearing, you actually let yourself down.

Does this boil down to whether prams take priorities over trolleys (wheelchairs not being an issue in this case), or whether it's okay to refuse blatantly to comply with the driver's instructions and then sit there, passively-aggressively gossiping in a disparaging undertone about another passenger because they think she should wait for an hour with her baby in the rain?

Telling them to 'fuck off' was hardly ideal but their behaviour was deliberately provocative, not to mention cowardly, since it was all apparently said about OP rather than to her. I can't abide people who do this.

Was there a suitable space for the shopping trollies on the packed bus? If not how should the trolley owners have dealt with the situation? Should they have have stood in the aisle holding onto the trollies, or maybe just got off the bus and waited until the next one came along?
I'm interested to know how an elderly person is expected to do their shopping if they need to travel by bus and not allowed to use a trolley.
The trolley owners should not have been rude and unpleasant though.

YANBU! I'm surprised the driver let you stand blocking the walkway though that's not allowed here.