To be sick of this "all old people vote Tory" narrative

[WatchoRulo]

There really is no nuance to any debate when people make ill informed claims of this type.

Anecdotally from my friends and family - the only Tory voters are the younger people.

Factually - it's very obviously the case that not everyone over, say, 60 suddenly starts voting Tory.

Also - like the "old people without degrees all voted for Brexit", these claims are based on a statistical extrapolation, often from a very small sample size and are also based entirely on what people who were asked told the researchers. This "data" is from the very same polling organisations that failed to predict the outcome of the referendum, yet somehow some people have accepted their guesses as immutable truths and "facts".

We have a crap FPTP electoral system which means most people don't get what they vote for.

It's a secret ballot - the only way to know for certain the detailed demographics of who votes for what would be to check who actually voted for whom.

I am really fed up of the narrative that as a boomer (aged 60, still working and paying tax and NI by the way) I have deliberately shat on younger people all my life (why would I - I have a teenage DD).

I have personally never voted Tory and consider it vanishingly unlikely I ever would, and I recognise that I've had some lucky breaks from when I was born, but I haven't deliberately stolen from young people.

I was 7 at the time. Forgive my not understanding sophisticated political historical nuances of the time

My mum voted ‘in’

It was ‘in’ or ‘out’in those day.

I think the sad thing is too many young people don't bother to vote. Then they grumble when the government overlooks their needs. I will admit to reminding them to vote which sometimes works, then if I think it is getting late and they have not been I suggest they vote and call in to get takeaway on way home my treat. I do that to get my 2 adult sons off to vote. I don't care who they vote for but people have suggested for ordinary people to get the vote.

Probably a better question to ask or get frustrated about is why old people are more likely to vote Tory and what can be done to convince them otherwise.

I particularly liked the "appeal to anecdotism" followed immediately by the questioning of the use of statistics - statistical studies that are probably thousands of times larger and a hell of a lot more representative than any anecdote people can come up with.

Large, properly conducted statistical studies tell us something useful. Namely that if Labour want to win the next election, they need to make sure their policies appeal to the widest demographic possible, and the "old person" demographic is one where they need to make up ground.

Sorry I can't let that go. It's not just words. The 1975 referendum was set against a very different landscape. It also didn't involve the EU because the EU didn't exist. The vote then was Yes/No to remaining in the EEC, an organisation of 9 member states which was very different from the EU.

But a vote of some sort happened which is why we were in the EU.

Its not a historical analysis with relevant foot notes! It’s just a discussion of why we’re in the EU or Common market as it was known.

We were in because of a referendum, which voted to stay. I was 7 at the time. I didn’t study political history at degree level.

The vote was well known and common knowledge. The bits and pieces around it weren’t. But it was the result that was important.

FGS it’s like doing a viva in political history of the 70’s phd.

@caringcarer I can understand why young people don't vote. FPTP doesn't help - they know they have a choice of two parties who do not speak to them, and voting for anything else is usually a wasted vote. So why bother at all? I always vote in local elections (immigrant so not eligible in a GE) but my council is rosette on a donkey blue so it does always feel a bit pointless.

The UK, Welsh and Scottish Parliaments and the NI Assembly all have Youth Parliament/Assembly. But still more needs to be done to get young people to engage.

youthparliament.senedd.wales

In Scotland they can vote at 16. That’s probably quite engaging.

My Dd is 16. She’s desperate to vote (the Tories out)

Boomer her too, voted Labour all my life but have to say the local mayor, who happens to be a Tory, is a breath of fresh air, he’s bringing investment, development and jobs to an area decimated by the closure of the big steel works here. Massive investment into wind power, the land the steel works stood is being developed instead of it being moth balled, left to rot or turned into a giant museum like some Labour candidates suggested.

67 ‘boomer’.

Spent a lot of my younger years protesting - Anti Nazi League (physical fights with NF), anti apartheid, Women’s Rights etc etc. Regular at the Red Rose club in Finsbury Park.

Never voted Tory in my life (nor my parents before me). Remainer. Mortgage free but that’s because I paid it off! By no means rich..or even ‘middle class’.

But to many on here I’m a right wing millionaire who’s out to destroy their lives…just because I got old 😂

Ageism is rife on MN.

I worked for 50 years. I have no private pension because I couldn't afford it. I've been a carer as a parent, a youth club volunteer adult, and am now a full time carer for a disabled DH. I voted Remain and have been a Labour Party member for years.

I am not and never have been a parasite on society. I worked my fucking arse off (two jobs, seven days a week) to buy my two up, two down terraced house. Nobody gave me a thing (except old clothes and in one memorable case a box of vegetables).

"carer for a parent" - wish we could edit!

Almost the same and I was a Women's TUC rep and dealt with Race Relations implementation in my day job. Never voted Conservative, voted Remain.

Ageism is alive and well.

“You're making my point - that's not a "fact". It's a statistical extrapolation - a guess.”

I’ll trust a statistical extrapolation (and if you’ve ever studied statistics, not it’s not a guess) over your straw poll of a couple of friends 🤷🏻‍♀️

Like you I’m a working tax paying boomer who doesn’t want to be tarred by that brush!

But actually it has a fact that there’s a lot of right wing voters in older cohorts - and more importantly, they have a higher turn out rate.

If you don’t want to use statistical methodology or a chat with your mates - go sit outside a polling station and watch the age range!

Apologies @ArseInTheCoOpWindow I misunderstood your comment and also to @Nolongera as I misremembered the purpose of the referendum in 1975 (it was a long time ago!) But I did vote to remain then and now.

I totally agree about FPTP - I actually voted in favour of AV in that referendum, but I'd go further.
As for local elections, we also have Tory local councillors and local voters would vote for a donkey with a blue rosette - I fail to see why we even have party tags at local level - our area is totally shat on by National Tory government - they destroy our services and infrastructure. Local Tories don't even pretend otherwise, they have the cheek to moan about "national government" but I guess they don't need to worry since they will get elected no matter what.

We really need a shake up to reintroduce democracy at a national and local level.

@AnybodyAnywhere

How come no one ever talks about stuff like the Anti Nazi League? I’m 58, l did it all. Rock against Racism, Red Wedge, CND, Miners strike.

But people just think of us as the generation who voted in Thatcher and are therefore rich.

Everyone l knew was like me. No one voted for Thatcher in my circles. We were all political activists against her. And now we are viewed like some leech off the state.

and there it is again. At no point did I claim anecdotal experience trumped statistics - just that the tendency to represent statistics as facts ultimately leads us to the "all old people vote Tory" narrative that is so damaging for those of us who don't (and ultimately everyone).

Wales too, in Welsh Parliamentary elections.

Funny isn't it - a friend's 23 YO daughter was visibly shocked and amazed (in a "good way") when I told her I went on CND demos in my youth. I suppose I don't look "the type" any longer, but most of my views haven't changed and I am more radical in some ways as I am so disappointed with the glacial pace of any change in the UK.

Actually one vitally important thing I have learned from getting old is that history I lived through is subject to being written (and re-written) by the victors (to borrow a famous quote).

I have lost count of the amount of things I find myself thinking "that's not what actually happened" about.

If you voted for Brexit you have to take a significant responsibility for the last decade of chaos. Nearly all of it - the Complete Works of Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss - was motivated by or exacerbated by Brexit. The reason the current government is full of absolute incompetents right now who nearly all would have been right at home in UKIP is because of Brexit. All the sane Conservatives quit or were exiled years ago.

You could have every single non-tory voting, over 60 comment on this thread and it still wouldn’t negate the FACT that a higher proportion of over 60s vote Tories by some way. No it’s not a homogenous group as with all age brackets but it’s a significantly larger group of over 60s voting Tory than not. It means if I stopped a random person on the street over 60, in the last election there is a 62% chance they would have voted Conservative. If that person is over 70, that rises to 67%.

That doesn’t take away from your individual political beliefs and actions. I don’t understand the issue at all here.

the retired people that I know mostly vote remain. However again that is anecdotal.

i haven’t seen any research on the demographic of the MN members (and is there a difference between members and those that post). Are members more likely to not vote Tory, if so more likely my anecdote is just that.

I’m in a red wall seat so the fact that my friends were all shocked and not happy by the change is obviously not typical of the local people that turned up to vote at that time.

You could have every single non-tory voting, over 60 comment on this thread and it still wouldn’t negate the FACT that a higher proportion of over 60s vote Tories by some way

Agreed. No-one cares about anecdotes - the historica trend is indisputable.

But, going by current polling, it has also changed - over 65s are now more likey to vote Labour.